tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post1160581945102687297..comments2023-08-01T04:17:03.628-04:00Comments on Liberal Arts and Minds: Damned if You Do, Damned if you Don'tKarenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-43758002643489093152008-03-30T10:01:00.000-04:002008-03-30T10:01:00.000-04:00Thibault voting with this nefarious government on ...Thibault voting with this nefarious government on Bill C-484 was an icy slash to the heart of this household. If his decision was not one born of conscience then it was purely a political maneuver aimed at the more pious in our community. Both scenarios are pretty much unacceptable. Thibault knows this riding is just salivating to go Harper and after his over a decade as MP, a want of change may be his biggest enemy to securing what would be a rather impressive (but unlikely regardless) 4th election. <BR/>With NDP votes available as the result of a popular candidate not offering this time out, Mr. Robert panders to the right at his reelection peril.Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-84712516159446667832008-03-29T23:09:00.000-04:002008-03-29T23:09:00.000-04:00All I ever read about is how he is reviled. Is the...<I>All I ever read about is how he is reviled. Is there any press in that province that is friendly toward or at the very least balanced about Dion?</I><BR/><BR/>Does it matter? Chretien was hated in Quebec, yet still did okay because he stuck to his principles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-56502141260395657792008-03-29T14:45:00.000-04:002008-03-29T14:45:00.000-04:00sconed, I think Pacetti is a fiscal conservative, ...sconed, I think Pacetti is a fiscal conservative, not sure about social but I don't think so.<BR/><BR/>Thibeault is a social conservative? I didn't know that, but I sympathise. My MP is Paul Szabo.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-37866065398878078822008-03-29T13:42:00.000-04:002008-03-29T13:42:00.000-04:00Pacetti is to the right is he...hmmm, that I did n...Pacetti is to the right is he...hmmm, that I did not know. Too bad. I have one of those in my riding. A social conservative in West Nova shouldn't have too many bones about voting for Robert Thibault. He is likely further to the right on social issues than the former NS progressive conservative running against him. It kills me to have to vote for this guy.Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-19227866770324935832008-03-29T13:23:00.000-04:002008-03-29T13:23:00.000-04:00sconed, while I don't entirely disagree with your ...sconed, while I don't entirely disagree with your sentiment, ditching Ignatieff would spell trouble imo. It would be trouble for Ignatieff himself, unless he landed another significant role, but his already too vocal supporters really would revolt.<BR/><BR/>Pacetti is pretty impressive, especially on committee. I think I'm correct in saying he's part the right wing of the party and perhaps that keeps him less visible?<BR/><BR/>If nothing else, I think it would be smart to showcase more of the entire team if only by having more tv and panel appearances etc.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-46406725503627471292008-03-29T13:01:00.000-04:002008-03-29T13:01:00.000-04:00As much as I want to see (which isn't much) the ne...As much as I want to see (which isn't much) the newly aligned Liberal front bench with the likes of Rae and MHF, I wish Dion would reach deeper into his caucus and promote a few people. I watched Massimo Pacetti on Politics the other day and was really impressed. Why do I not see more of this guy? I am concerned that having Dion surrounded by former leadership contenders is leaky logic and leaves the door wide open for the government to point out his so-called leadership shortcomings. I'd also get myself a new deputy. I've never really been comfortable with Ignatieff at that position and wouldn't mind his being bumped for someone else. But that's just me.Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-8226753600988489862008-03-28T12:50:00.000-04:002008-03-28T12:50:00.000-04:00Sconed — Yeah, I know. I get a little intemperate ...Sconed — Yeah, I know. I get a little intemperate sometimes. As much as I admire Dion’s commitment to an amicable “collegial” style of leadership, I dearly wish he’d knock some heads together and put a bit of stick about, if you know what I mean.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-29594793509594630202008-03-28T12:17:00.000-04:002008-03-28T12:17:00.000-04:00I have to wonder if the growing frustration with D...I have to wonder if the growing frustration with Dion is the strange psychology that makes administrators and other kids blame a 'bullied' for not smacking a bully in the 'nards when harassed, despite knowing the bully invoked such a provocation so he could justify to the administrators why he proceeded to wipe the schoolyard with the bullied.<BR/><BR/>We want the righteous underdog to win, to be witty and spry and secretly a karate champion -- and if that's not immediately forthcoming, well, the bullied is actually a wimp and deserving of scorn. Nevermind his intellect, or his likeability, or the fact he's right about the bully, or his awareness he'll be hamburger if he makes the slightest wrong move. If he's not the 'good beast' to the bully's 'bad beast', he just won't do.<BR/><BR/>There might be something pragmatic and Sun Tzu about fading away in front of the enemy until it's a battleground of your choosing, with your supply lines and allies finally in place, but dammit, it ain't heroically Alamo!<BR/><BR/>That said, the concern that the 'gray ghost' strategy is turning into a full rout is on my mind as well. Perception of strategy is as important as actual strategy. I want to see what happens with the two new 'leadership team' people in the House now. Does a skilled team work against a charismatic despot, or does Canada's fate have to be decided between strongmen individuals with subservient staff while the electorate prays one of them feels 'noblesse oblige' towards the non-corporate sectors?Nileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04096047389811381098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-21541101064310651402008-03-28T10:26:00.000-04:002008-03-28T10:26:00.000-04:00The Liberal party doesn't need rural Quebec to win...The Liberal party doesn't need rural Quebec to win government. Nice to have, but not the end of the world. Much ado about nothing.<BR/><BR/>~Jesus, Martin, relax all ready and keep that vote from the grasp of a party that is only going to facilitate the Conservatives in the election.Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-64041775420063613312008-03-28T10:10:00.000-04:002008-03-28T10:10:00.000-04:00Opposition syndrome: Can the Grits survive the rum...Opposition syndrome: Can the Grits survive the rumour and intrigue?<BR/>LAWRENCE MARTIN <BR/><BR/>From Thursday's Globe and Mail<BR/><BR/>Lawrence Martin <BR/>March 27, 2008 at 3:38 AM EDT<BR/><BR/>Isn't it interesting, a Liberal MP was saying yesterday, that Bob Rae offered to help Stéphane Dion pay off his leadership-campaign debt - a whopping $850,000! - but the help has not been forthcoming.<BR/><BR/>"It's like, he, Rae, wants to have Stéphane on a leash, beholden to him," said the MP.<BR/><BR/>Isn't it interesting, said another party insider, that Jean Chrétien hasn't come forward to defend the feckless Mr. Dion? Mr. Chrétien, as the official noted, is close to the Rae family. Bob's brother, John Rae, an executive at Power Corporation, was Jean Chrétien's campaign manager.<BR/><BR/>Such is the state of rumour and intrigue in the Liberal Party of today that such stories have gained currency in caucus. The Rae camp says it's all patently untrue. "The Ignatieff supporters are trying to knock Bob down a peg," said one Rae adviser, "before he even takes his seat in the House."<BR/><BR/>Just read this a few minutes ago...RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-90741078132162815352008-03-28T09:56:00.000-04:002008-03-28T09:56:00.000-04:00cherniak_wtf Dion at least has a plan for Quebec.I...cherniak_wtf <I>Dion at least has a plan for Quebec.<BR/>If Dion, Iggy, Rae and Kennedy got together they could do great things - instead they let Harper and his band of idiots call the shots...</I><BR/><BR/>Do you think he'll be able to sell his plan to Quebecers?<BR/><BR/>All I ever read about is how he is reviled. Is there any press in that province that is friendly toward or at the very least balanced about Dion?Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-21842609935111712902008-03-28T09:51:00.000-04:002008-03-28T09:51:00.000-04:00Sandi, I don't recall any party ever setting out p...Sandi, I don't recall any party ever setting out policy prior to an election, but I stand to be corrected.<BR/><BR/>As for conspiracy theories...that one is quite the stretch, I think.<BR/><BR/>As to where is Rae these days? My guess is he's apartment hunting in Ottawa, ;).Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-20182971606909644392008-03-28T09:40:00.000-04:002008-03-28T09:40:00.000-04:00Interesting find Ron.Interesting find Ron.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-655228744075956202008-03-28T09:38:00.000-04:002008-03-28T09:38:00.000-04:00RT, you know your comments are always welcome, cra...RT, you know your comments are always welcome, cranky or not.<BR/><BR/>In fact, I suspect sentiments such as yours are needed to firm up the resolve of those charged with turning things around.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-11366580641652837082008-03-28T09:17:00.000-04:002008-03-28T09:17:00.000-04:00I know nothing about the Quebec press but a friend...I know nothing about the Quebec press but a friend dropped by this morning to pick up something from me. She said that she heard a couple of lawyers talking on the VIA Rail yesterday and apparently (don't know if it's true) La Presse is somehow connected to Power Corp. (Bob Rae's brother on the board or something) and Chretien's daughter is married to a Power Corp. family member. They said the Chretien was for Bob Rae and this it could possibly be a scheme to make Dion and Ignatieff look bad and Rae come up the winner - hmmm.....more conspiracies than you can shake a stick at.<BR/><BR/>Where is Bob Rae these days?RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-35298193824022318872008-03-28T08:59:00.000-04:002008-03-28T08:59:00.000-04:00We all seem to forget that prior the last election...We all seem to forget that prior the last election Harper didn't set out any real policy - just hints. He unravelled his policies one by one, day aftr day during the election.<BR/><BR/>Kinsella has a solution - take the memberhships away from those troublemakers - sounds good to me.RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-27425379524909465982008-03-28T06:07:00.000-04:002008-03-28T06:07:00.000-04:00oh well it sells newspapers ...errr.. websiteshttp...oh well it sells newspapers ...errr.. websites<BR/>http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5252/742/1600/Harper%20slam.jpgNorthern PoVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04670080478290108536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-86485610090722837772008-03-28T06:03:00.000-04:002008-03-28T06:03:00.000-04:00Everything said here is fair comment.I am a Libera...Everything said here is fair comment.<BR/>I am a Liberal (and Dion-supporter in 06) and am currently very unmotivated.<BR/>But then I punched a few words into Google and cheered myself up. Look what I found on CTV site (just change the names and it could have been written yesterday -except for the wont-take-questions part ;-) )<BR/><BR/>Harper snubs dissidents, says hard work ignored<BR/><BR/>Updated Fri. Sep. 23 2005 5:54 PM ET<BR/><BR/>Canadian Press<BR/><BR/>OTTAWA -- Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is refusing to respond directly to critics who have been trying to chip away at his leadership, setting his sights on the media instead.<BR/><BR/>Harper said former candidates, staffers and organizers who have spoken out about him make better stories for a media that purposefully ignores his hard work.<BR/><BR/>"Any Conservative, anywhere, at any time, can, by criticizing other Conservatives, become an instant and enormous media star. That's just the way it is, we'll have to get used to it,'' he said in a speech to party staffers Thursday.<BR/><BR/>Harper, who last spoke with the national media at a caucus meeting three weeks ago in Halifax, did not take questions.<BR/><BR/>His staff made sure no questions would be asked Thursday by moving reporters out of the way before his arrival and then to an area away from him for his speech.<BR/><BR/>The Conservative leader was assailed this week by Carol Jamieson, a top Conservative official in Toronto, who said average Canadians would never vote for him and urged him to quit.<BR/>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1127418119173_122827319/?hub=CanadaNorthern PoVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04670080478290108536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-50258063334965642422008-03-28T05:28:00.000-04:002008-03-28T05:28:00.000-04:00KNB — Thanks for indulging my crankiness and frust...KNB — Thanks for indulging my crankiness and frustration on your blog, btw. Maybe I'm out to lunch, but something has to change... We can't keep stumbling along like this.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-74559436368330143252008-03-28T05:23:00.000-04:002008-03-28T05:23:00.000-04:00Mushroom — I know that “conventional wisdom” says ...Mushroom — I know that “conventional wisdom” says that Orchard is a flake, a loose cannon and a polarizing figure not to be trusted (these were typical of the opinions voiced on my old blog when I put the matter out there as to whether his running was good or bad thing). At the time I deferred to the general consensus and didn’t think much more of the matter. But I’ve since reconsidered and now feel that I was deeply wrong in simply rolling over like that. His message is a heartfelt one of traditional pride that the Liberals would be wise to pay some heed to. Perhaps like many, I find the current, aimless sort of “drift” the party seems to be in quite insufferable. Maybe some are happy at just sniping from the woods at the Conservatives and picking away at their trivial blunders. That’s all well and good as far as it goes, I guess, but there’s sadly lacking… It’s not much to stir the heart or soul. This is why I keep harping on about the need for policy and a clearly articulated vision that goes beyond inane platitudes. Mr. Dion may not be the most blessed or gifted individual in terms of being a messenger, but without some kind of actual “message” he’s… what?Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-81465353773314106212008-03-28T01:29:00.000-04:002008-03-28T01:29:00.000-04:00"He will regret that."Note the spin being given in..."He will regret that."<BR/><BR/>Note the spin being given in Grit circles over Sask. It was a safe Conservative seat. We would rather lose the seat than have David Orchard representing the Grits in Ottawa. This was what I heard from some rank and file members. RT, good on you for calling the Grit party out today. I will remember this so I can go and sob at your blog if there are worse days than this.<BR/><BR/>"Although Vancouver-Quadra isn’t exactly the invulnerable Liberal fortress portrayed in the media, that race was, to use Wellington’s phrase “a near run thing” — and quite needlessly so, in my opinion."<BR/><BR/>This is where Dion's judgment needs to be questioned. Grit insiders told me this was going to be a 1000 vote victory. Not good, but nothing like the avoidance of defeat it was made out to be. Joyce Murray was Dion's favourite candidate. One of the very few Campbell Liberals who lost her seat the last time due to questions on her environmental record. How can Joyce convince BCers that she is a spokesperson for Dion's greener Canada after a near escape such as this. Maybe Dion needs to tell Christy Clark and Mark Marrissen that they blew it big time. This must not happen again or RT will not come back to the Grit fold.<BR/><BR/>So yes, Dion deserves to pay a price for the Ides of March <BR/>17. I will continue to support him, but need to get this point across. It is better not to see the glass half full, lest we begin to slack off in our efforts to support Dion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-4193141847606788212008-03-28T00:14:00.000-04:002008-03-28T00:14:00.000-04:00Steve — More seriously, yes, I know that’s the cal...Steve — More seriously, yes, I know that’s the calculation and was told as much last year by party officials when I queried them on this point. I thought it was wrong then, and even more so now. While I can appreciate the reasons for keeping it under lock and key, it seems foolish at a time when many are wondering what it is the Liberals actually stand for these days, aside from not being the Conservatives. <BR/><BR/>If their policy is prone to wholesale theft by the government, then perhaps they need to re-think whether it’s one worth having. If on the other hand they feel it won’t stand up to scrutiny, or will be wildly distorted by Conservative hacks and used against them, again… they need to consider how it would be spun in the short space of an election campaign. <BR/><BR/>In either case, their thinking on the matter doesn’t appear very sound to me. Can you imagine if the U.S. presidential candidates played coy like this with their policies? It’s completely unthinkable. And, I would argue, unconscionable. <BR/><BR/>So Dion was “good” today. Well, la-di-dah. Like 99% of the electorate I would imagine, I didn’t see Dion today. Most people aren’t political junkies and don’t follow the day to day stuff, or the inside baseball crap for that matter. We get general impressions formed from bits and pieces of information that fall into our lap from the nightly news, the daily paper and maybe the odd story or two on the Internet. Right now it’s less than impressive. For those mildly aware, it looks even worse.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-56530969212304259572008-03-27T23:39:00.000-04:002008-03-27T23:39:00.000-04:00Steve — Oh, joy! Policy was “clearly alluded to”… ...Steve — Oh, joy! Policy was “clearly alluded to”… Hallelujah.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-18183619812023717792008-03-27T23:21:00.000-04:002008-03-27T23:21:00.000-04:00KNB — I’m generally a very patient man. After all,...KNB — I’m generally a very patient man. After all, I implored folks not fly off the handle after the debacle in Outremont when many were adamantly calling for Dion’s head, suggesting that the outcome was more of an exceptional fluke than anything else. I’ve steadfastly supported him throughout all his dodging and weaving around the Conservatives’ election-seeking maneuvers. Notwithstanding the degree of shame involved, I’ve generally been in favour of his playing fox to Harper’s pack of barking canines. And I too have been inclined to slough off the rumours of internal dissent as just the media hungrily sniffing around the wrong trees. <BR/><BR/>But enough is enough. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps along with others, I was disturbed by the outcome of the recent by-elections. Although Vancouver-Quadra isn’t exactly the invulnerable Liberal fortress portrayed in the media, that race was, to use Wellington’s phrase “a near run thing” — and quite needlessly so, in my opinion. Likewise in the contest in Saskatchewan. Had Dion simply allowed the nomination run its natural course instead of intervening, the Libs would have taken that seat handily — much of the native vote, who enthusiastically supported David Orchard, sat on their hands. Personally, I would very much have liked to see Orchard elected and to have had his voice influencing policy, but that’s another matter… Betraying him, and cutting him off at the knees to satisfy Goodale’s ego was a very BAD move as far as I’m concerned. Very bad. He will regret that. <BR/><BR/>Now we learn, much to our unsurprise, that apparently we’re right back to the bad old days where we started several years ago. Yes, you can blow it all off as a few anonymous cranks in the backroom venting their spleen if you want, but this has been going on for a very long time now. It takes an enormous leap of faith not to accept that “where there’s smoke there’s fire” when it comes to the apparent fissures within the party, especially in crucial areas needed to win an election. Presently we see virtual chaos and total disorganization in Quebec, a weakened and fragile presence in the West (the Libs’ seats in Victoria and the lower mainland are all far from “safe”), a blow-out on the prairies, a general sense of not being ready for an election, woeful shortfalls in fundraising, and so on. <BR/><BR/>If the danger before us isn’t enough to galvanize these selfish assclowns into some sense of comity and united purpose, then I just despair for the fate of this party. Clearly, they deserve to lose — big time. Maybe our Conservative friends are correct. They simply have not learned their lessons; they haven’t been sufficiently punished. Perhaps another eight years in the political wilderness will bring some sense to their thick skulls.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-16677822193657279732008-03-27T23:18:00.000-04:002008-03-27T23:18:00.000-04:00I'm surprised that some are trying to find blame f...I'm surprised that some are trying to find blame for the problems the QLP has...<BR/>It's easy it's the fucking QLP organizers and representatives in Quebec - not Dion.<BR/><BR/>They are a bunch of whiners who can barely organize a beer run to the dépaneur next door to the party office. <BR/><BR/>Dion at least has a plan for Quebec.<BR/>If Dion, Iggy, Rae and Kennedy got together they could do great things - instead they let Harper and his band of idiots call the shots...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com