tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post5304487948918505184..comments2023-08-01T04:17:03.628-04:00Comments on Liberal Arts and Minds: Threats? Lies? Yes. The Con's Want an ElectionKarenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-65571219171189321492008-02-08T00:05:00.000-05:002008-02-08T00:05:00.000-05:00Ottlib,Anyway for Dion can go up to the House and ...Ottlib,<BR/><BR/>Anyway for Dion can go up to the House and tell the PM that the Senate will veto the crime bill and it needs to go through the House of Commons once more. He will then propose amendments calling for the distribution of prescription heroin and force the Cons to defeat the crime bill as a non-confidence motion. I can only dream, can I?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-78387819779876566912008-02-07T22:16:00.000-05:002008-02-07T22:16:00.000-05:00There is a simple and straightforward way of deali...There is a simple and straightforward way of dealing with this new motion.<BR/><BR/>Support it. <BR/><BR/>It is meaningless anyway so there is no harm in it.<BR/><BR/>Mr. Dion should stand up in the HofC and state that he supports the Crime Bill passed by the House and that he hopes the Senate will do their due diligence and pass it in a timely manner.<BR/><BR/>Done. Stephen Harper looks like an idiot. The Liberals do not look soft on crime and the Senate goes about its business in its normal fashion.<BR/><BR/>In all likelyhood the Senate will pass the Bill by the deadline anyway. It is not like the Conservatives have flooded the Red Chamber with an inordinate number of bills.ottlibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12695135535019042279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-63978467601916761622008-02-07T21:15:00.000-05:002008-02-07T21:15:00.000-05:00Thanks Gayle. It niggled at me but I couldn't qui...Thanks Gayle. It niggled at me but I couldn't quite place that particular disgusting behaviour and I should have twigged. <BR/><BR/>I just watched Politics on line. I was watching committee this afternoon so I missed the braaawwwddcast, but I saw Goodale say that. Good move to make the Con's look like the chumps that they are. That's leadership, ;).<BR/><BR/>More tomorrow on the committee meetings but suffice it to say, the Con's do not know what the heck they are doing. Natural Resources, Ethics and the Procedure committees, told me that the Con's are more inept than even I thought.<BR/><BR/>Omar is right. This government and these people have no idea what they are doing. It's like bringing up the grade 5 class to teach first year university students.<BR/><BR/>Pompous is what the con's will attribute to that comment. Truth however is what they ignore.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-84953484892644449222008-02-07T19:58:00.000-05:002008-02-07T19:58:00.000-05:00Today on Newman Goodale said there was no way they...Today on Newman Goodale said there was no way they were going to let Harper get away with the confidence motion tabled today. <BR/><BR/>KNB - I believe ottlib is referring to Jane Creba and the disgusting way Harper stood in the place she was killed and campaigned on it.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-81975794667841588172008-02-07T19:21:00.000-05:002008-02-07T19:21:00.000-05:00Thanks for that ottlib.To be honest, I tend to shi...Thanks for that ottlib.<BR/><BR/>To be honest, I tend to shift in my opinion of what we should do. That of course is called dithering, but it's quite the opposite isn't it?<BR/><BR/>If the facts before you change, you open your mind to be able to assess them.<BR/><BR/>The Con's confuse leadership with rigidity. Leadership is about what is happening now and dealing with it, regardless of what you may have claimed in the past. Ideology is all about ignoring the present facts and sticking to your story, regardless. That's NOT leadership, that's being reckless. <BR/><BR/><I>But at least I draw the line at finding advantage in the death of a 15 year old girl.</I> <BR/><BR/>I cannot quite place what you're referring to. Could you elaborate?<BR/><BR/>If what you say about the confidence motions on the budget is so, I would agree as I know the facts today.<BR/><BR/>You're right about how time transmutes in the realm of politics. Bizarre isn't it?Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-52600607688149145622008-02-07T18:40:00.000-05:002008-02-07T18:40:00.000-05:00knb,The Act that separates the two is the Canadian...knb,<BR/><BR/>The Act that separates the two is the Canadian Constitution.<BR/><BR/>So the Harper government is blowing smoke as usual. They can no more force the Senate to do something than NATO can defeat the Taliban militarily.<BR/><BR/>As you say, Stephen Harper wants an election and he wants it bad. He knows that even winning the government, let alone a majority, will be very difficult once this economic downturn really begins to bite. So he wants to go now.<BR/><BR/>Two or three months of rising unemployment numbers is all it is going to take.<BR/><BR/>There is a certain amount of irony in all of this, which has naturally been missed by the MSM. At the end of December it was Stephane Dion who was making all of the noises about bringing down the government early in the New Year.<BR/><BR/>As they say, a week is a long time in politics and a month is a lifetime.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I am beginning to believe the Liberals should prop up this government a little while longer.<BR/><BR/>Allow the slowing economy to work its corrosive effect on the Conservatives. Yes, yes, I know I am heartless to try to find advantage in all of those lost jobs. But at least I draw the line at finding advantage in the death of a 15 year old girl.<BR/><BR/>As well, it is rarely good political strategy to give your chief opponent what they want. <BR/><BR/>There will be three confidence motions on the budget. The first one will be a day or two after but the last one will be closer to June. That should be the one where the Liberals bring down the government.ottlibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12695135535019042279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-58175078462061231722008-02-07T18:00:00.000-05:002008-02-07T18:00:00.000-05:00BTW, is it even proper procedure for the House to ...BTW, is it even proper procedure for the House to interfere with the Senate?<BR/><BR/>Surely there is some Act out there that separates these intitutions and guards against such things?Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-84556560003235047692008-02-07T17:34:00.000-05:002008-02-07T17:34:00.000-05:00I'm with you Omar. Their is tons of fodder out th...I'm with you Omar. Their is tons of fodder out there. Get the best advertising team out there and have at it. Hopefully one that relates to the adults in the room versus the childish nonsense that we've seen so far from the Con's.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-23331456504803501792008-02-07T17:28:00.000-05:002008-02-07T17:28:00.000-05:00Wilson, more dreams on your part, sadly they are m...Wilson, more dreams on your part, sadly they are my nightmares. <BR/><BR/>BTW, if we were in government, I doubt that Rae will be appointed Finance Minister.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-48431782480156478222008-02-07T17:20:00.000-05:002008-02-07T17:20:00.000-05:00ron: The problem is you are too weak and afraid of...ron: <I>The problem is you are too weak and afraid of an election at this point and are angry that Dion has put you into this situation.</I><BR/><BR/>Amazing how con's think just because they say something that it is true.<BR/><BR/>In this case, you're not even close to how I feel and something tells I'm not speaking for only my self.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-31381612989537784692008-02-07T17:15:00.000-05:002008-02-07T17:15:00.000-05:00anon @ 8:14, I'd prefer to call it strategy, but y...anon @ 8:14, I'd prefer to call it strategy, but yes that is the name of the game.<BR/><BR/>The hypocrisy though, lies in the fact that Harper locked himself into a set election date and now is doing everything he can to weasel out of it.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-42494025200440586062008-02-07T17:12:00.000-05:002008-02-07T17:12:00.000-05:00Good grief wilson. Your tongue must be permantly ...Good grief wilson. Your tongue must be permantly dyed blue from all that Kool-Aid,;).<BR/><BR/>You've listed all the Con talking points and needless to say I disagree with most.<BR/><BR/>I do think that Harper would like to get out ahead of the by elections though. The money issue is thrown around often, but isn't everyone on a level playing field during the election?<BR/><BR/>That's the first I've heard of the pine beetle being killed off, I hope your right but it's of little use to areas already hit.<BR/><BR/>Harper is MORE of a bully than ever and yes still scarey, to those of us who sees what he's doing anyway and once linked with Bush...always linked with Bush. He'll be gone, of course but his style will not be forgotten nor will Harper's emmulation of some of it.<BR/><BR/>Obama is an interesting one to raise. As we watch our neighbours to the south breathe a deep sigh of relief for the first time in almost 8 years, Canada's will be watching and remembering how much better life was under a L/liberal government.<BR/><BR/>etc. etc.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-4855064316964489992008-02-07T15:38:00.000-05:002008-02-07T15:38:00.000-05:00Steve, I think we are saying about the same thing....Steve, I think we are saying about the same thing.<BR/><BR/>Indeed things are piling up for them and in spite of them trying to change that channel now, I think they will have a tough time.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-5761529834742665092008-02-07T14:28:00.000-05:002008-02-07T14:28:00.000-05:00but they look like toddlers when they go before th...<EM> but they look like toddlers when they go before them and exhibit their tantrums. I'm sure they felt they looked tough today, but imo they looked like idiots.</EM><BR/><BR/>The Liberals have before them a plethora of material to create credible election attack ads directed at this ridiculous government. The buffoonery is on display daily and one need look no further than Peter Van Loan's hilarious and nonsensical throw-down aimed at the Senate today. I sincerely believe this government doesn't know what it is doing.Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-172854164382524402008-02-07T13:46:00.000-05:002008-02-07T13:46:00.000-05:00Wilson,Popularity polls for the PM does not matter...Wilson,<BR/><BR/>Popularity polls for the PM does not matter. Martin was a dead man walking as PM once the House fell on the confidence motion. Give credit to Harper in wanting the House to fall on his own issues.<BR/><BR/>Dion will be running on the Grits bandwagon. We may or may not win, so he is your prime target on attack ads. It is our job to challenge this. Game on.<BR/><BR/>Lizzie May has given the Greens a higher profile and money in the coffers to run a nationwide election campaign. They will have campaign offices for the first time in many constituencies!!!! Yes, there are Greens such as Stuart Parker who wanted a more social democratic Green party instead of the ecological friendly capitalism of May and Jim Harris. But in the end, she is attracting cash and dollars.<BR/><BR/>With regards to the Obama thing, at least we have one CPC politico who wants to disassociate the party with Bush's republicans. Good luck paddling up current against the social conservatives in your party. In fact, I have nothing against them so-cons. At least, they are truly authentic and tell things as it is. You can have a beer with ninety per cent of them. Having a beer with PMSH? I don't think we have more than a few words to say. Even I find his cats to be more charismatic than him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-66598974982163205382008-02-07T12:40:00.000-05:002008-02-07T12:40:00.000-05:00'Even Stockwell Day would have won in 2006 against...'Even Stockwell Day would have won in 2006 against Paul Martin.'<BR/><BR/>Mushroom, <BR/>do you have higher hopes for Dion?<BR/>Martin went into the last election as 60% best PM......<BR/>Dion is at 13%<BR/><BR/>Cons spent more money, yes. <BR/>ex:<BR/>-A billion more on Natives than the Kelowna accord. And they actually put it in their budget, unlike the Liberals, who promised it during an election campaign but failed to budget for it.<BR/>-Followed thru on Martin's military budget, are right on track in that spending.<BR/>-Paid out the Chinese head tax, Residential Schools, etc. and 'priceless' apologies to Canadians that were wronged.<BR/>etc etc etc <BR/><BR/>'Big military contracts may not be enough if MacKay loses to Lizzie May in Central Nova.'<BR/>oh puleeeese, her own party thinks she sucks! <BR/>Come to think of it, same can be said about Dion.<BR/><BR/>The Obama comment means that Bush is on his way out, linking PMSH to Bush at this point would be viewed as silly. All Dems want to increase their efforts in Afghanistan, Iraq is off the radar.wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03589410224972050999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-73481545711639832192008-02-07T12:23:00.000-05:002008-02-07T12:23:00.000-05:00'Harper isn't brave enough to put solid terms of t...'Harper isn't brave enough to put solid terms of the mission in his proposal that will go to parliament.'<BR/><BR/>Good gawd knb, there will be a vote on the terms of the mission extension. <BR/>PMSH will take those terms into an election campaign.<BR/><BR/>The only noticable fear here is from Libloggers and the LPC.<BR/>It's time.<BR/>PMSH and the CPC are ready. <BR/>Dion and the LPC have been given plenty of time to get their act together (unlike what Chretien/Martin gave Reform/Alliance/CPC)<BR/><BR/>No amount of English lessons are going to make Dion and Liberal policies anymore coherent.<BR/>We need an election to get rid of the obstructionist, stand for nothing, Liberal mentality.<BR/>PMSH will get his majority.<BR/><BR/>Let's see Bob Rae's election platform for a slowing economy. (snicker)wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03589410224972050999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-52548574799429597282008-02-07T10:44:00.000-05:002008-02-07T10:44:00.000-05:00Threats and Lies are something the Liberals know a...Threats and Lies are something the Liberals know a whole lot about so we can call that one a wash. Con's may want an election but it is the Liberals who get to make the decision -- Time to stop whining, crying and lying - either give into the Con's and force the election or shut up and let them govern. The problem is you are too weak and afraid of an election at this point and are angry that Dion has put you into this situation. I thought dithers was a great name for Martin but looks like Dion is doing him one better - oh- your number one fan at the Toronto Star (Travers) accused Dion of dithering in his article today --- looks like even the hard core Liberals are having serious doubts. - Doesn't matter if the Con's want an election or not - it is the Liberals who call the tune on that one. Call it or not but please stop whining about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-83281741152930494742008-02-07T08:14:00.000-05:002008-02-07T08:14:00.000-05:00the cons want an election...in 2009.is it surprisi...the cons want an election...in 2009.<BR/><BR/>is it surprising that Harper has made afghanistan, the budget and a crime bill confidence issues? He has not changed his stance on these topics and has said numerous times that he is willing to put it to the people.<BR/><BR/>People may not agree with his stance, and that is their right. But at least he's willing to take a stand and be judged accordingly. <BR/><BR/>I get the impression that libs are maybe just a little angry because they realize that they are a bit snookered...again. Does dion abstain yet again and risk looking like he has no position of his own, or no position he's willing to stand up for other than trying to live another day? Or does he vote the govt down and hope the NDP and the bloc do, too, and risk the optics of his party being against tax cuts, being strong on crime and against our current role in afghanistan? Surely not the best position to be in going into a possible election.<BR/><BR/>of course, chretien snookered the right even more than this in his time, but because it was the liberal party in the pole position, it was ok and even acceptable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-41877649873175510122008-02-07T01:41:00.000-05:002008-02-07T01:41:00.000-05:00Wilson,Who has spent more, the Grits or the Cons? ...Wilson,<BR/><BR/>Who has spent more, the Grits or the Cons? Harper is not Mike Harris nor Ralph Klein. Does not have the populist charisma of them both. Need a major transformation in the next few days. How about start bashing illegal immigrants once the crime bill gets defeated on a vote of confidence?<BR/><BR/>Big military contracts may not be enough if MacKay loses to Lizzie May in Central Nova.<BR/><BR/>Harper is not Obama, he is not even Mike Huckabee. Even Stockwell Day would have won in 2006 against Paul Martin.<BR/><BR/>I am not sure where you get the facts, but Harper is not drinking Hillier's kool-aid. The Cons are no longer thinking big once the procurement bill was sent to the Treasury. Notice the downgrade in Harper's goals in defending the Arctic.<BR/><BR/>The other points complement Steve's argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-39449869963581253862008-02-07T01:22:00.000-05:002008-02-07T01:22:00.000-05:00IMO, it's just time.-There will be no March bi-ele...IMO, it's just time.<BR/>-There will be no March bi-elections, which would have likely helped the Libs, and saved Canadians a bundle.<BR/>-Libs bank account is not exactly bursting, and leadership contenders are in debt (when do those big loans have to be paid back?)<BR/>-And then there is the election platform. The economist vs. the professor. Canadians will expect a prudent govt, not costly social programs.<BR/>-It's been very cold. Cold enough there is hope that the pine beetle was cut back or irradicated. Good news for the forest industry.<BR/>-Lots of big military contracts handed out across the country, will boost the economy.<BR/>-Harper has extra NATO troops and equiptment in the bag, making selling the Manley report easier.<BR/>-Canadians are about to fill out their incometax forms, they will be pleased with the extra cash they get back.<BR/>-No more scary Harper, bully Harper we can live with.<BR/>-No more Bush, Bush, Bush. that would just be silly while we watch Obama Obama Obama.<BR/>-re corruption, Canada has risen from 12th (Chretien Martin years) to 9th since PMSH was elected 2006.<BR/>-We have a voice and respect on the world stage now, so say former Liberal Deputy PM Manley.<BR/>-Canada has not been this united, the Bloc this powerless, for 30 years.<BR/>-Even with the downturn in the mfg sector, record employment in Canada, over 300k new jobs created this year.<BR/>-Our brave soldiers are no longer in a living hell, the Decade of Darkness is over (credit to Martin for starting that ascent)<BR/>etc etc etcwilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03589410224972050999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30594727.post-48932433175655289142008-02-06T23:44:00.000-05:002008-02-06T23:44:00.000-05:00Knb, I wonder if their polls do show them doing we...Knb, I wonder if their polls do show them doing well, or have the Cons concluded the future looks less rosy. The bad news is starting to pile up as this government moves forward, they are past the stage of living off the Liberal past, and know they have their own legacy. For once, I don't think this drive for an election is necessarily poll driven, as were the previous "threatening" periods. This time, it might be that they see diminished returns in the future. If we get past the next few weeks, then there won't be any real chance for an election for months. They know the economy is tanking for the next couple of quarters, time to jump ship and take their chances.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.com