Friday, April 11, 2008

Wait! I Have Another Idea

Well attacking the Liberals has done Jack no favours apparently, so I guess he felt that a different approach was necessary.

Now, I doubt that these polls will change the NDP strategy of including the Liberal party in every attack against the Con's. No, I think that's too engrained and all of them to employ this hiccup-like mantra. Conservatives, hic, like Liberals... blah, blah, blah.

Still, he seems to be looking for yet another angle to make himself and his party relevant. His latest ploy is to separate the immigration portion of the budget bill and have that sent to the immigration committee. Not as a matter of confidence, but I guess he might say, as a matter of fairness.

I'm no procedural expert, so I don't know if this can be done or not, but if it can, I think Jack has missed the obvious here.

Aside from Harper hiding important legislation in places they don't belong or might be missed and making everything under the sun a confidence motion...uh, as I recall, the whole committee thingie isn't going all that well.

Now some committee's are working just fine of course. There is the typical political wrangling, but over all they are getting through their work. The ones that are not working however, are not working for a reason.

Let's take the Environment committee. The Con's have been filibustering for 19 hours or so. Why? Well there is a bill that is before the committee and they are trying to get through the clause by clause, but damn, it holds Con's accountable for their so called environment plan and let's face it, accountability, especially on that front cannot/must not happen. Oh, did I mention the bill was drafted by Jack?

Then there is the Procedures and House Affairs committee. It too is being filibustered for months now I think. Chairs being removed, new ones elected, then quitting. A real mess and it must be said that this is one of the most important committees. Anyway, it's dysfunctional because the opposition has raised a motion to look into the Con's in and out financing scheme during the last election. Darn. There is that accountability thing again.

Let's wander over to Justice shall we? Well the chair of this one is giving 'Jumping Jack' a run for his moniker because every time the opposition puts forward a motion that Hanger doesn't like, he jumps out of his chair and leaves. Specifically, he refuses to look at the Cadman affair. Yep, the 'a' word, accountability shows up once again.

It doesn't really end there, but those are the most obvious...so let's get back to Jack.

If I understand his latest proposal, he's suggesting that the offensive portion of the budget bill be hived out and sent to the Immigration committee, a move I'm certain will be embraced by the Con's, cough, so reason of course will prevail and if not reason, certainly the will of the majority of the House will because the Con's have shown themselves to be reasonable when brought to account, right?

Is he nut's? I understand his desire to stop this bad legislation, but why not let it go to the Finance Committee, extend the hearings and sub in members from the Immigration committee when they arrive at that section and show this nonsense for what it is? Bring witnesses in, as was just done in the Senate, to really expose what this legislation will mean and let the cards fall where they may.

I do not know where the Lib's will fall on this but to bring yet another committee to a standstill, doesn't get to the heart of the matter, imo. In fact, I think it pushes it under the radar.

We need prominent stakeholders to make statements, loud statements, about how wrong this legislation is. We need the same kind of coverage that the Senate committee got yesterday in order to shake the intellectual/political malaise we see in this country.

I guess we'll have to wait to see where this goes.

30 comments:

Ryan said...

Hey, I have a great idea on how to let the public know how wrong the legislation is.

Vote against it! Come on!

Yes, yes, yes. I know your response, Layton is scum etc. Ryan is NDP so he is bad an his opinion is bad. But this has nothing to do with the NDP or Jack Layton. This has to do with voting for legislation that goes against what the Liberals have always been champions of. How will the Liberals beat the Conservatives in an election when the Conservatives can say about every issue "then why did you vote for it?"

knb said...

ryan, somehow I knew you'd be here first. I'm not sure you read my post with an objective mind however.

Calm down for a sec and think about what I wrote. I just think splitting this thing off and sending it to committee is stupid. It won't have the effect needed to show the Con's for who they are.

Trust me, if the Lib's go for this and cannot give me a really good reason as to why they have, I stand by what I wrote.

Yeah, I took a jab at Jack but come on! Dion has been taking them on both sides and he's still standing.

Anything to say about the polls? Not just Nanos. You're down in 3 tonight.

As to your final comment, "then why did you vote for it?". We didn't of course and that is where policy will play out.

Another cool avatar btw. It is red on my screen, but I'm sure it was meant to be orange. That's not a dig, btw.

Cherniak_WTF said...

But this has nothing to do with the NDP or Jack Layton.
Actually yes.
This is all politics for Jack and the NDP.

While the Liberals have been criticized for doing nothing, I get the feeling that Ryan wants them suicidal in the next election.

Now if I recall, last time Layton got in bed with the Liberals, received a lot of goodies from a budget then went to lie with the Connies... Layton took down the Liberals and in a way helped the Conservatives come in....

Sometimes, I think the NDP are more delusional than the Connies.

And, yes it's very childish that Harper makes everything a confidence vote but it surely will appeals to small minds in the next election.

Cherniak_WTF said...

re: avatar
knb - it's red on a properly calibrated monitor...

clh said...

Thanks for writing about this knb. I was wondering why the NDP would want to deflect the immigration reform from going on to the next step in the Finance Committee and you've laid it out.

Obviously, the two (immigration reform and the budget) never belonged together, but by keeping them together now it requires the Conservatives to deal with them. By separating them, the Conservatives will be able to not address whatever they don't won't to address on the immigration bill. This reminds me a lot of the NDP steps which helped the Conservatives not have to answer questions about attempted bribery in parliamentary committees.

RuralSandi said...

So, principled Jack wants to bring the government down - for the sake of a few possible seats he thinks he'll get and risk a Harper majority - or, another minority government at the cost of approx $300 million? Doesn't even make sense.

If Harper got a majority, dear old Jack wouldn't have a say whatsoever in policies and he'd be risking a government of polor opposite to his so-called beliefs.

Tommy Douglas would sure handle things differently. He'd be dealing with the Liberals because he'd want to protect his principles and beliefs - being, if Conservatives got a majority because all the social issues Douglas believed in would die. He did it when he was in Federal politics - that's principle.

Tommy Douglas is probably rolling over in his grave right now.

I know Jack Layton has a fondness for affordable housing - but it's suppose to be for the poor - not Jack. He wants to move to Stornoway - it would be a freebie for him and Olivia.

The Right is Where its At said...

"ryan, somehow I knew you'd be here first. I'm not sure you read my post with an objective mind however."

Knb this was funny talking about Ryan;)

wilson said...

''If Harper got a majority, dear old Jack wouldn't have a say whatsoever in policies and he'd be risking a government of polor opposite to his so-called beliefs.''

Harper has a majority right now, and thank the Liberals for their support at every opportunity.

Dipper policies will get as much support from the Cons as they did from the Libs.
ex: the Libs Daycare thing, was for 1 year, (big whoopee)
and used to BUY Dipper support in for election purposes only.
Cons will support good Dipper ideas, and give them credit for it.

Only difference is, Cons have their own ideas, and don't need to steal the Dippers ideas, such as the Dippers 2004 policy of 'Green Mortages'.

Libs campaign from the left (anti-Afghan mission)
and govern from the right (signed 2 mission extentions).
You are outed as the Party of no Principles.

Dippers kept the Libs afloat, not the other way around.

Libs can't go it alone.

wilson said...

re committees:

In the Public Interest:

I would like committee to investigate who the 12 Quebec Liberal candidates were, that received $120,000, in $100 bills, of stolen taxpayer money.
Dion must know, he knows Cote well.

I would like committee to find out where the missing $40 million Adscam money, stolen from taxpayers is;
and investigate Chretiens 'slush fund'.

I would like committee to investigate the CWB exclusive contracts with Paul Martin's CSL.

Perhaps when Conservatives get a majority......

knb said...

cherniak_wtf are you receiving any of those juvenile black and white, 10%'s from the Con's in your area?

I'm just curious as to where in the country they are going.

I've now received 4.

knb said...

clh, you're welcome, but it must be said that this is just my speculation of what is likely to happen.

I know that Maurizio Bevilacqua has put forward a motion for the bill to go to the immigration committee, but the bill would be intact and filibustering would be out of the question.

Actually, maybe I shouldn't say that, ;).

I think Chow may deal with this next Tuesday.

knb said...

Lol Sandi.

Given the Nanos NDP numbers, I don't know where he is going with this.

The more that he tries to paint the Lib's as being the same as the Con's, the further left he places his party. So far left that even moderate lefties won't feel comfortable with them.

knb said...

Right, I wasn't making fun of Ryan. I like him. I just know that he's a staunch defender of the NDP and I kinda expected his comment.

knb said...

wilson Harper has a majority right now, and thank the Liberals for their support at every opportunity.

I wonder if I'll live long enough to read a comment of yours that doesn't include a parroting of Con talking points. Do you guys get e-mails on this stuff from the CPC?

ex: the Libs Daycare thing, was for 1 year, (big whoopee)

I don't know if that's accurate or not, but if it is, I imagine it was to be used as measurement going forward.

Beats the heck out NO plan for 2 years now.

Only difference is, Cons have their own ideas

Ha! You had 5, 2 years ago and your gang is still harping on them.

As for your committee comments, sorry my dear, you had your chance and raked everyone you could over the coals. I don't recall Lib's walking out and filibustering.

Strength doesn't mean playing tough guy in QP. It means being able to face the music. The Lib's have done that and the Con's seem unable to.

All kidding aside, you don't really believe that Dion has knowledge do you?

The Right is Where its At said...

"Right, I wasn't making fun of Ryan. I like him. I just know that he's a staunch defender of the NDP and I kinda expected his comment."

Knb I didn't think that you were making fun of him. It's the way it sounds (Sarcastic)that's all;)

Cherniak_WTF said...

cherniak_wtf are you receiving any of those juvenile black and white, 10%'s from the Con's in your area?
Some unknown backbencher is sending and ad asking what rate of GST would I prefer to pay.

Of course this completely vacuous piece of paper is a joke and odd given that I'm in a BQ riding - and Michael Fortier is the one trying to bribe his way into power here.

knb said...

Thanks c_wtf. I'm in a Lib riding and I've received 4 to date. 2 from the man himself.

If I actually thought he'd see the return on this kindergarten ploy, I'd mail it back with all of my thoughts scrawled all over his face, in crayon maybe.

wilson said...

''All kidding aside, you don't really believe that Dion has knowledge do you?''

Not sure what you mean knb. Do I think he is smart?
No; intelligent , yes.
Brave, yes;
strong, no.

If he was smart and strong,
Dion would have pulled the trigger right after PMSH introduced 'Quebec is a Nation'.

But he is intelligent and brave, so he chose the advice of his 'team' to hold off on an election and bravely faces the bad media and stinging lack of loyalty from his party.

'Harper already has a majority' is a msm and a Dipper talking point.

clh said...

"If I actually thought he'd see the return on this kindergarten ploy, I'd mail it back with all of my thoughts scrawled all over his face, in crayon maybe."

You can be sure that this ploy is done deliberately and with considerable market strategy behind it. It's not that people vote for the party that sends out the stupidest literature. It's that a party whose vision for Canada differs from that of most Canadians can gain by dumbing down politics to this level.

It is one piece in an overall strategy meant to convince people that all politics is stupid. If successful, people will figure it doesn't matter who is in power, best to tune out and just vote for the party most likely to put a few extra dollars in your own pocket.

sconed said...

cherniak_wtf are you receiving any of those juvenile black and white, 10%'s from the Con's in your area?

These are rather prevalent in the riding of West Nova. The latest were sent out on March 4 & 5 respectively and contained the name of David Sweet on the control slip as the customer sending the "unaddressed admail". It is usually Jay Hill's name that accompanies these mail-outs for this area.

Cherniak_WTF said...

If I actually thought he'd see the return on this kindergarten ploy, I'd mail it back with all of my thoughts scrawled all over his face, in crayon maybe.
I would.
I've returned mime with a few comments.

cheese and chalk said...

Did you happen to catch Newsworld's "At Issue" panel Thursday? I just re-watched a moment ago so I could jot down some of the words and talking points used in reference to Stéphane Dion.

Hebert: Totally disconnected from Canadians; increasingly fragile position as leader; more people in Toronto bad mouthing Dion than in Montreal; no election unless Dion wants out of his job quickly.

Gregg: Weak; unprincipled; can't find a Liberal who thinks they can win an election.

Martin: Dion does not want power; weak and deluded; crazy.

To his credit, I did not pick up anything overtly disparaging uttered against Dion by Andrew Coyne.

I would certainly like to know who these four elitists speak for as their rhetoric is anything but fair and balanced when it comes to the Liberal leader.

knb said...

Sorry wilson. I wasn't clear.

You said Dion must know about adscam. That is what I was referring to.

knb said...

clh. I was flipping through the Flanagan book recently and I recall that it was all important for Harper to define himself in the last election and get out ahead of the Lib's doing it for him.

They were out on day one with ad's defining Dion and I see this nonsense as the logical (to them) continuation of that.

It's so poorly executed though, as I said, juvenile.

It irks me no end that it is our dime paying for these things.

knb said...

Thanks sconed. Has Thibeault said anything?

knb said...

cherniak_wtf I've returned mime with a few comments.

I'm thinking I might save them up to hand them back to the inevitable Con door knockers that will come with the next election, comments and all.

knb said...

cheese and chalk, I agree. Mansbridge himself is hardly objective on these panel discussions.

You're right about Coyne though. He does often manage to look a bigger picture and comment from there.

Hebert? Good grief. She rivals Harper in terms of being Dion's worst enemy.

The only panel I see that is not stacked is Don Newman's. Chris Hall and Don Martin come from the right. Susan Delacourt objective but from centre/left and Russo is generally pretty objective.

sconed said...

He was informed about it.

Thibault's goose is cooked unless he soaks up at least a 1,000-1,500 NDP votes. This riding is croaking for change.

Cherniak_WTF said...

knb - did you not have a new post up?

knb said...

I did but somehow blogger had it then didn't, (it went to draft).

I think I have it back up again.

Please tell me if that is the case.