Wednesday, May 07, 2008

You're Looking a Little Goofy There John

There is a new poll that shows that most Canadians are in favour of a carbon tax.

When asked whether they supported the idea of a carbon tax on businesses and people based on the carbon emissions they generate, 61 per cent of respondents said yes and 32 per cent said no.

Hmmm, I wonder who that 32% is? It gets better though.

Support levels grew even higher when measures were cast in broader environmental terms.

Seventy per cent said they supported a carbon tax on businesses and people, with the money generated spent on incentives for eco-friendly behaviour and renewable energy. Twenty-two per cent disagreed.

Seventy-three per cent of those surveyed supported an environmental usage charge that would apply to people and businesses who use above-average amounts of fossil fuels, water or electricity, or who produce more garbage. Twenty per cent opposed the measure.

Higher still was the support for an environmental tax refund paid to people who reduce their use of fossil fuels, electricity and water, and produce less garbage.

Eighty per cent of respondents supported the idea - while only 16 per cent opposed it.

All of this of course comes on the heels of Dion speaking of the possibility of tax and the Con's, especially Baird, mocking such a move. On it's face, this poll shows that the Con's are on the wrong side of this issue.

Now, I tend to think that people answer such polls altruistically and whether those numbers would stand in a voting booth remains to be seen. However, overall I think it's clear that the government is lagging far behind popular thinking in this country.

I also think that Dion can make major strides in this area, provided a clear succinct plan is put forward and focuses strongly on the rewards of such a program.

Keep screaming John...please.

21 comments:

wilson said...

Link to the poll please.

knb said...

Sorry about that wilson. Link now included.

wilson said...

thx knb.

Everyone wants to conserve. Everyone wants to help the environment.
The questions in the poll should have each concluded each with
'if it means you will have to pay more for xxx'

gasoline
garbage removal
heating fuel
electricity
public transportation
food
clothing
property taxes
all utilities
etcetcetc

The questions were without consequence.
Canadians attitudes are not and have never been the problem, it's the cost.

There will not be a great deal of debate from Cdns, until there is a price affixed to the Kyoto carbon tax.
I can not think of one necessity/luxury of life that does not have a 'carbon fuel' component.


Libs should have presented their Kyoto carbon tax during those 8 successive surpluses, when they had the chance.
Maintaining a household/life will trump playing a rich man's (Gore/Suzuki) game, in these uncertain economic times.

RuralSandi said...

Obviously, Wilson doesn't get it - should quit listening to Baird's talking points.

Ever heard of tax shifting?????

wilson said...

Yes I have heard of tax shifting, that is how Mulroney tried to sell the GST.
Yah, the GST was TAX SHIFTING.


Chretien was elected for promising to kill the GST.

Maybe you don't get it ruralsandi,
at least you could see the GST. A carbon tax will be 'hidden' in EVERYTHING we need and want.

wilson said...

And for every $1 collected thru a carbon tax, taxpayers will get income tax cuts with
**whats left over **
after paying for expenses incurred by a carbon tax:
-admin costs (people,time)
-increased social funding to lessen the impact on the poor/seniors/unemployed

That should leave taxpayers with about $.15 refund for every buck they cough up.
So to be revenue neutral, also means cost will have to be paid for out of the carbon tax collection.

knb said...

Wow, just a wee bit speculative there wilson.

You are playing out the scenario that your party touts and I would expect no less...but that does not make it fact.

A. There is a cost to pay for what does harm! Think hard to your conservative roots. That is your mantra.

Why is it different here?

B. There is a way to mitigate the financial damage.

Even those of us who are not rich have learned how to reduce. Currently, I think we put out garbage once a month, if that. The rest is recycle.

As to the financial, there are rewards that can be brought forward that would incent.

For the rest, really wilson, going back to Chretien and what he faced when he got there...it's 2008 now. I think the statute of frivolity has rune out.

Your last post is speculation only in your eye's.

What I think people underestimate is Dion in this equation.

Ya, ya, I know you paint him as the nutty professor or something, but I would say, silly you.

I do not know if Dion will implement a carbon tax but I do expect and hope he will present a regimen that Canadians will embrace. I do know that his sanity and knowledge will play much better to most Canadians against Baird's buffoonery.

Sadly, you have many buffoons: Baird, Poilivre, Lunn, Flaherty, Bernier, MacKay, Oda, O'Connor, Blackburn, Clement, Menzies. To name a few.

We'll see how this plays out.

At the moment I'm quite comfortable with Baird going toe to toe with Dion.

In fact, Baird seems to be more caught up in Finance...defending flim-flam Flaherty.

What a joke.

Steve V said...

"The questions were without consequence.
Canadians attitudes are not and have never been the problem, it's the cost."

You hear this exact line every time someone presents an argument that the public is ready to make a sacrifice. Rather than acknowledge that the environment has been a consistent top tier issue for the last two years, very telling findings like this one (reservations aside), governments enacting the dreaded tax without riots in the streets, people like wilson just say I don't believe it. The only retort, this abstract conclusion about what will happen IF, once this happens THEN, no empirical evidence, just some hunch about what the public really thinks. Gee, last time I checked, public opinion polls were a vehicle to gauge what people think. A carbon tax isn't this completely foreign concept anymore, people seem to realize what it all means, the debate has already begun- and guess what, it's actually going over pretty well. Is British Columbia the real world, Quebec, how bout Manitoba?? It's already moved beyond opinions, it's happening. So, all these boogeyman Con posters are just defending the fact that their party is behind the curve, boxed in by their own bombastic accusations. Baird has failed to convince Canadians of anything so far, why should we be worried now.

Steve V said...

Just one more point, the Cons always argue that people don't want to pay the price, because historically it's Cons that aren't interested in personal responsibility. The philosophy has always been me first, predicated on a survival selfishness, that lacks compassion or empathy for much, outside of narrow self interest. I think I've figured it out, their just PROJECTING.

knb said...

Steve: I think I've figured it out, their just PROJECTING.

Precisely!

I doubt most of them understand what that means, but that has been the case from day one.

Sad isn't it?

Sir Francis said...

Baird is a total buffoon with zero credibility among ordinary Canadians. That Harper continues to use his bloated mug as one of the primary public faces of his party speaks to his profound disconnect from the national mood.

By the way, the CPC's habit of projecting its venality has been implicitly acknowledged by Harper himself. As I posted some time ago, Harper hadn't been aware that Canadians are most powerfully motivated by altruism until his public relations research told him as much.

wilson said...

Well if a carbon tax is THE way to help the environment, why didnt Dion push it thru when he was enviro minister?
He would have had the Dipper/Bloc support and we would have been 3 years into it....
oh, that's right, he was against a carbon tax when the Libs were the government.
oh, and he campaigned against Iggy's carbon tax in the leadership.
So what has changed?
Is this the price of Lizzy may's support in uniting the left?

You Libs had better have a very detailed cost analysis of this, or Cons are gonna mop the floor with you.

A few points.
=Liberals are not known for keeping their promises, so I do not believe what Dion presents is ANYTHING like what we would get.
=Liberals are know for turning a $1M policy into a $1 Billion mess.
=Canadians do not tend to vote in the party promising the most tax hikes.

wilson said...

p.s. It isn't me you have to convince. It's Ontario, Dahlton McGuinty and Buzz Hargrove.

Sir Francis said...

It isn't me you have to convince. It's Ontario, Dahlton McGuinty and Buzz Hargrove.

Ontario, eh? How high is the CPC polling in that province these days, Wilson?

Dame said...

Now is time for shifting our attention for the Real Problem what is discussed here : http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/2540#more
How Harper quietly sold out canadian interests to the USA??

gingercat said...
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The Right is Where its At said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Right is Where its At said...

Since we are quoting polls here is one. one.

It is from the same polling firm that you linked to. The Conservatives have been saying it for many months now. Apparently according to this poll a majority of people believe them the Conservatives.

I know it is not the subject. I'm just making a point here if you believe one poll then you have to believe this one to. I'll repeat its the same polling firm you have link to.

The Right is Where its At said...

I know I made a couple of errors I typed to fast sorry;)

knb said...

Nice try right, but what wasn't reported is that Harper has an even higher rating of not being liked.

While his (Dion) likeability rating isn't exactly encouraging, it's better than the 55 per cent who last week said there's something about Harper they don't like.

Moreover, the poll suggests Dion's party is more in tune with the issues that move Canadians.


Harper is more disliked than Dion.

Forty-seven per cent said there's something about Mr. Dion they don't like, compared to 55 per cent who said the same thing about Mr. Harper.

Seek out and read the entire poll, right.

It's not a sunny scenario for anyone, but your guy is set in stone. Our's has the opportunity to show Canada he is not what the Con's say he is.

The Right is Where its At said...

I read the whole poll. The majority think that Dion is seen as weak. The majority think that his communication skills are not good.

This are the two most important things when it comes to the election campaign. Apparently the liberals know this to otherwise we would be going to an election this spring.

If you think you have the best product you need to be able to sell it. Apparently Mr.Dion is not able to do it;)Not that I think the liberals have a great product. So nice try KNB;) Don't bother to give me the link,because I have seen it.