Sunday, December 09, 2007

Bairdfaced in Bali

It's difficult to articulate how I feel about what is going on in Bali. Ashamed and embarrassed are descriptors that come to mind but the anger I feel seems to trump those two.

The transparent game being played by Baird and this government is almost too bizarre to believe, but believe it we must.

I imagine that Baird glommed on to the concept of pushing all countries to sign on to binding targets in order to make a difference, with absolute juvenile glee. I imagine him saying, Finally a way to do nothing while looking principled! We can sell this! Canadians will buy this! Ladies and gentleman, we now have our talking point!

How the bureaucrats get behind this stuff is beyond me. The problem of course is that it makes no sense. Their strategy is obvious. It is meant to sabotage the meetings. That's it, that's all. There can be no doubt that they knew the US would never sign on as long as Bush was in power. In fact, I suspect that the US was alerted to this strategy clearing the way for Canada to proceed with it, while not doing any damage to the relationship along the way. After all, their end game is the same isn't it?

If we had actually gone there with some sincerity, wouldn't our Finance Minister and Trade Minister have gone as well? 30 countries sent their respective ministers. Surely the meetings for these ministers are an integral part of the process? I may be wrong, but I do not believe that either Flaherty or Emerson are attending. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Both of their websites are more concerned with attacking Dion than the Climate Change Meeting.

The meeting does not end until the 14th of December. What is the view of Canada so far?

Canada's lack of credibility was reinforced this week when Rajendra K. Pachauri - chair of the Nobel-Prize winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change - said that Canada has “a government of skeptics” that “do not want to do anything on climate change.” Also this week, Canada was ranked 53rd out of 56 in a comparison of the climate change performance of the world's top emitting countries.

Of course there is the fact that we won, 1st, 2nd and 3rd place on day six of the conference. The leaked memo made us look idiotic. The Con's don't seem to register that though and so they plod along.

In the end, I think that they have played this very badly. We remember Ambrose in Nairobi. We know that they have no intention of doing anything. Baird hasn't changed one word of what they intend not to do, he just speaks louder, screams in QP for that matter. For some reason he has been able to dupe some of Canada. He gets himself on the news often. He's usually re-gifting or putting out Liberal plan.

I think they have played this badly because not only will Canadians react, but we will react to how the world is reacting to us. When is the last time you saw the world view Canada as a pariah?

In this, the year that we should be celebrating Pearson's accomplishments, we are instead taking action that would have him roll in his grave.

The Con's are out there and obvious. They continue to see the protocol of Kyoto as nonsense. That is the crucial point of course, not the Kyoto Protocol, but the protocol itself.

To my NDP readers, I ask only this. The Liberals indeed did not prioritise, rather the PM of the day did not. Dion did, but he had to fight for that recognition. That will never be articulated properly in general media. What I say to you is this. I know come the next election you see a way to gain more seats, but you will not be government. What's the risk of pushing that? A Harper majority.

To my Con readers, I say keep on doing what you are doing. You are now doing what most of the world rejects and what the majority of Canadians reject. Kindly spare me the Dion, 13 years nonsense. You have been in power longer now than Dion was Minister of the Environment. He actually accomplished important projects in 17 months and all you have done is cherry pick what you can deal with.

We, or more aptly, the Government of Canada is going about this in all the wrong way. We are willing to hurt people and the planet in the name of ideology.

"Wake up Canada!"


Anonymous said...


"Wake up Canada"!

Canada is awake you just don't like the direction we are going period.

Don't give me this majority of Canadians reject this government. The majority also rejects the Liberals the NDP the Greens and the Bloc here in Quebec.The Liberals under the leadership of Jean Chrétien won a majority with only 38% of the Canadian population it didn't seem to stop the Liberals to cut here and there. So please don't give this majority nonsense its the system we live under. So get over it please!!!

Sorry but we are going in circles with this.In the 70's they said we were heading for a new ice-age,late 80's into the 90's they said global warming now its climate change. I've seen this movie before. What catch phrase will it be in a decade from now?

Oh I forgot to mention remember when you told me that the Liberals are not left wing under S. Dion,that they are centre. Well recently in Montreal Mr.S.Dion at a meeting of the local riding president he has said that the new Liberal platform would be left leaning.
Not that I'm complaining it would only help the Conservatives in the next election. Vote splitting comes to mind especially when Jack Layton announced that the NDP would spend just has much $$$ as the Liberals and the Conservatives. Hmmm guess which voter will he target maybe the Liberals.

Lizt. said...

this literally makes me sick. If the Liberals had done half of what this government is getting away with they would never see the light of day again! I feel for my country!

Red Tory said...

Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re going to get a lot of meaningful dialog on the issue because it’s such a political football. Rather than dwelling on the rhetorical gamesmanship surrounding it might be more useful to hold the Conservatives’ feet to the fire in terms of what they are actually doing. Has any piece of legislation actually been passed yet or a single regulation been implemented? What are the particulars of the government’s objectives with respect to renewable and “alternative” energy investments, etc. Baird has talked about taking the approach to dealing with the environment that relies on technological innovations, so what is the government actually doing to support research and development in this area? And so on. I guess what I’m suggesting is that the frame of reference needs to be changed.

Anonymous said...

Were you this embarrassed and angry when Canada was 12% over Kyoto targets?
24% over, 33% over?
Nah, it's was okay then, because Liberals were trying....they chaired enviro meetings and everything!!

Well look into a mirror.
We're on this shit pile because Liberals will sign anything for 'moral' (photo-op)reasons, and then just forget about it.
It's always been political for the Libs, never really about the environment, and always about appeasing the Dippers so they could stay in power.

You had your chance and BLEW IT! Big time. For that Libs should be ashamed.

Ryan said...

knb - I think we should look at this a different way, and relish it.

Harper and Baird look like idiots. For people whom the environment is actually a big deal will recognize this, and vote accordingly.

Somehow, I have faith that the next election is going to be a good one, from what I heard from Dion about the "showdown of two visions of Canada." That's what I'm talking about.

Canada will wake up, indeed.

Anonymous said...

You know, Baird is truly a talented man - I mean, really, when I watched him in an interview this morning from Bali - the man has an absolute talent for talking and talking and taling and saying "absolutely" nothing and not really answering any questions.

You know, when the right keep saying about emissions going up in 13 years - well, duh - so did the population and number of vehicles.

Dion was only environment minister for 18 months and we all know the final decisions come from the PM.

wilson said...

The UK was able to meet or exceed their Kyoto targets, by farming out their manufacturing to China.

If the UN used a formula for calculating ghg, that included the ghg's associated to imported goods from China/India (ghg formed in production and transportation) it is reported that UK would be 20% OVER target.
check out nationalnewswatch for report.

That's the problem with Kyoto.
While 36 countries were burdened with Kyoto, business from those countries (and other countries, to head off the increased cost) moved to non-Kyoto countries to stay competitive.
Just ask Buzz about jobs leaving and cheap imports.

And the result?
Ghg's globally have increased. And by 2050, even if the Kyoto signators reach their targets, ghg will have doubled if developing nations get a pass.
oh, and Gore is over $100m richer from speaking engagements.

Canadians get it.
Cons likely polled enough Cdns to feel confident in their position.
Dion should get with the program and assist PMSH in a global solution.

Dions position is to slow down the economy with severe and costly mandatory Kyoto targets, (job/industries flee the country)
and then taxing companies/citizens to pay to re-boost the economy and subsidize companies (cherry pick winners, with out a doubt, in Ontario and Quebec).

knb said...

RT, I don't disagree with you and I think on a national level the conversation does go in the direction you suggest.

Of course no legislation has been passed and until today, funds had actually been cut for science and research.

Baird used Bali to reinstate the Liberal strategy today. Why announce a national program abroad? To deflect from the bad press no doubt.

As usual however, he flapped his gums without having any idea of what he was talking about:

The new program will spend $29-million on adaptation research and $56-million on various projects.

Mr. Baird appeared caught off-guard when asked how the program will differ from the one his government killed.

He said he would check the details.

What a buffoon.

knb said...

Ryan, I am trying to share your optimism and would agree that Baird and Harper do look like idiots, but they do have a talent for lying and convincing some that they are actually doing something they are not.

Witness the Harper followers on this thread.

I'm not giving up but I just hate the damage that Harper and gang to this country's reputation.

They convince some of the darndest things, by making statements

knb said...

anon @8:54, you're certainly bang on about Baird. He is the master of baffle-gab.

Anonymous said...


How can anyone suggest that the majority of Canadians don't agree with the direction of this country when the latest poll suggest just the opposite 66% think our country is moving in the right direction. If you want the link I could give it. Please explain it thank you!!

knb said...

Explain why you're dropping in the polls then?

Anonymous said...


The latest poll is the Conservative at 36% and the Liberals at 29%.When was the last time the Liberals were at 36%? The Conservatives won an election on that are you forgetting? Why isn't the Liberals increasing their polls then. Remember this government has the Afghan mission the environment and Mulroney Schreiber the Liberals should be running high in the polls right now why can't they crack 30%?

Red Tory said...

WTRIA — How many people believe in astrology? (Really... go check. Be amazed!)


Anonymous said...


"WTRIA — How many people believe in astrology? (Really... go check. Be amazed!)"


It doesn't change the fact that 66% believe that we has a country are on the right track.

Now what reason is there to insult,what is your problem Red?

Why is it you seem to need to insult people when you disagree?

Ryan said...

knb, do you really think people like that were actually swayed by Harper and Baird? These people already have their minds made up and are tickled pink to have our glorious leaders reinforce what they think they already know.

"Canadians like the direction the country is going" is a ridiculously stupid, loaded question to ask at a poll.

Why the hell wouldn't 66% of Canadians vote for Harper if that's what the poll meant? Jesus.

Anonymous said...


So in the 90's when the Liberals were winning majority election with only 38%,you would then have to say that the majority of the people in this country did not like the direction this country was going in right? If we take your argument.

Anonymous said...


"knb, do you really think people like that were actually swayed by Harper and Baird? These people already have their minds made up and are tickled pink to have our glorious leaders reinforce what they think they already know."

You Ryan and Liberals like you had your minds made up the night the Conservatives came to power in 2006. So don't give me this cockymany story please.

Ryan said...

Hah. I'm a neither Liberal or Conservative. But that's beside the point. And yes, when Chretien had 38% of the popular vote it didn't necessarily mean they liked the direction the country was going. It also means that because 66% of the country likes the direction the country is going doesn't mean they like Harper's politics or vision.

It means your point is moot. When people like the direction a country is going it could mean one of many different things. Could mean that they like the economy (one could argue a product of the Liberals). Could mean they like the attitude of its citizenry toward important issues such as the environment. Could also mean they like Harper and his government policies. A country is not simply it's government. Your point is not a point at all, but a meaningless statistic. To say that two-thirds of the country didn't vote for Harper means that two thirds of the country didn't want him as leader. Simple as that.

Ryan said...

Want his party in power, that is.

Anonymous said...


"It means your point is moot. When people like the direction a country is going it could mean one of many different things. Could mean that they like the economy (one could argue a product of the Liberals)."

Or maybe a product of the P.C. in the 80's when we had the free trade. In which the Liberals said they were going to scrap. Since our $$$ back in the 90's was very low compare to our U.S. counterpart. That played a very huge part in our economy wouldn't you say? We wouldn't have this economy if the Liberals were in power in the 80's,because we wouldn't have a free trade agreement.

"To say that two-thirds of the country didn't vote for Harper means that two thirds of the country didn't want him as leader. Simple as that."

This also applies to Mr. S.Dion's Liberals Jack Layton's NDPers and the Greens. I will not mention the Bloc,because they can't get power.

Ryan I like the discussion we had at least you don't insult people when they disagree with you like some do.

Lets agree to disagree take care.

Ryan said...

The current economy is not a product of NAFTA. It's a product of unbridled corporate growth and globalization. We'd likely be able to sell the oil and other natural resources to the States and China, regardless of NAFTA.

I never said that the fact that two-thirds didn't want the Conservatives in power meant that two-thirds wanted Dion, Layton, Duceppe or Elizabeth May. But I'd wager that the NDP & Greens would prefer a Liberal gov't to a Conservative one. Harper's right hand man, Tom Flanagan admitted as much himself, that Canada "isn't a Conservative country." This isn't like the old PC split, with policy a matter of minor detail, it's something completely different that rubs most Canadians the wrong way.

knb said...

Good grief John. 2/3 rd's of this country is progressive. Your party having dropped that particular portion of their moniker, tells that 66% that they do not align themselves with their policies.

Bask in an idiotic poll if you choose, but the truth is not too many are paying attention to the details at the moment. If their life is okay, they'd answer that question in a positive manner.

During an election, all bets are off. Reality tends to get in the way at that point. Facts, that messy point that you do not want to deal with, tend to be front and centre.

Stay smug my friend. It will prove to be your and Harper's downfall.

knb said...

Ryan, no it's not that people were swayed, I just think that all they see are announcements...and they sound good.

They are BS of course, but unless you pay attention as we wonks are wont to do, you don't really see the reality of what is happening.

An election will change all that, though I am now in more agreement with you.

See my next post.

Anonymous said...


Karen you and all of your Liberals friends can spin all you want. But Dion's Liberal will have a tough time to beat the Harper Conservatives you can deny all you want its a fact.

"Stay smug my friend. It will prove to be your and Harper's downfall."

First let me tell you that I'm not smug. Secondly I think smug should go to your friend Red for calling people idiots why different of opinion. If I call people idiots I would be accused of being a bully go figure.