Sunday, March 09, 2008

Another Piece of the Interference Puzzle

Do you remember this man? If you're a Conservative and live in Toronto, you might. His name is Mark Warner. He was the candidate nominated to run against Bob Rae in Toronto Centre. That was before the Con's interfered in his campaign and told him that he couldn't run and he was being replaced.

Why? Because he was a person of substance and accomplishment, imo. These qualities are to be discouraged in that party of course, so they unceremoniously bid him farewell.

Today we learn that Mr. Warman will be supporting Bob Rae. He's torn up his Conservative card and is now a member of the Liberal party. He says he saw a pattern with this government and how they interfere in the democratic process. In fact he went further and pointed out that many of the same players seem to be at the centre of every questionable action. In his case, Ian Brodie and Doug Finley.

The contrast between the two party's could not be more stark in my mind. The Con's really are not interested in their candidate's credentials. They care if the candidate will faithfully repeat the party line, period. When is the last time you heard a Con MP say anything discernibly different from one of their colleagues? The Con central command and control is simply not and effective way to govern and that is now being born out.

Do Liberal candidates have to toe the line in such a manner? No. Obviously, overall they have to believe in the Party values, (why would you want to represent a party if you didn't?) but having a difference of opinion on some issues is acceptable.

Mr. Warman seemed to indicate that he would be open to running as a Liberal candidate. I do not know a lot about the man, but based on his bio, I'd say he'd make a pretty good candidate.

20 comments:

Babylonian said...

Can you prove that the Conservatives removed him from Tor-Cen because he was accomplished? That is very stupid reasoning at best. I understand he is very accomplished (international rights lawyer in Brussels I believe), I don't know 100% about the man, but I do know he claimed he was fiscally conservative and socially liberal, too much so for the taste of the party.......is that not acceptable in your eyes?

This had nothing to do with the man’s accomplishments or lack of. The whole party would be in a mish mash of confusion and insubordination if you had people who you can't keep level with, Mr. Warner doesn't seem to agree, he thinks because he agrees with conservative spending, that’s all that matters. It would be fully understandable if party’s leave room for descent, however that shouldn't be the norm, how are parties differentiated? In my estimation, he simply was/is a liberal trying to wear conservative clothing, and was stopped at the gate.

Lord Omar said...

One doesn't need to prove an opinion, nitwit.

RuralSandi said...

Here we go - the CPC and their supporters will try to bash, trash and demean this man.

Look at this bio - what credentials.

I saw him on TVO's, The Agenda with Steve Paiken the other night. They were discussing NAFTA - he is one smart cookie.

Good catch for the Liberals.

Babylonian said...

Did you add that "imo" later? Anyhow, you never have to prove anything you ever say, opinions or claims, you would be foolish not to though. I think you can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. He is accomplished, who in their right mind wouldn't want an accomplished person on the team? It's only because he is not a social conservative. I heard him on the Michael Coren show half a year back; you can watch it on youtube.

"Nitwit"................lol. Not sure why you added that, I was not trying to hurt your feelings or anything.

Pax (peace)

knb said...

Prove my opinion? I thought it was clear that it was my opinion, but since it wasn't, I've clarified the text.

To your point though, Mark said himself that he was told that he could not rely on the work he'd done in the community as part of his platform.

According to Warner, Finley said the following to him.

We run a cookie-cutter campaign and we don't adapt in any way to the reality of Toronto Centre. The voters don't care who he, (Warner) is or what he's done.

Call me crazy but that statement doesn't seem to embrace his accomplishments as being an asset to the Party.

He was not a Liberal, he was a Progressive Conservative a group that many contemporary Con's seem to dismiss, which is just another example of how far right the current Party is. There are of course some PC's left, but they robotically spew the line of the day, which says quite a bit about their lack of character.

Your logic expresses precisely the central command and control mentality that I refer to. It's never worked anywhere in our history because it's impossible for a select few to control all. At some point it collapses.

If you'd care to provide an example where this kind of governance hasn't eventually fallen apart, I'd love to see it.

Listen to the interview here. Fifth QP vid on the right.

knb said...

Omar, in fairness I did go back and put imo. I thought it was clear, but apparently not.

knb said...

I agree Sandi. I'm not sure what ridings are available in TO, but he looks like a find.

knb said...

babylonian, that was not my response.

My nic name is knb.

If your view of being a Conservative coincides with Coren's, well it's clear where you are arguing from. That would be the fringe my friend. He and the Charles McVety's of the Party are part of the reason that they eventually implode.

wilson said...

''Today we learn that Mr. Warman will be supporting Bob Rae.
He's torn up his Conservative card and is now a member of the Liberal party.''

No, this is not today's news,
the CPC found out before they replaced him, he supported Bob Rae.
And that fact was reported before they replaced him too.

The CPC found out before they replaced him, he was consulting The Garth for advice. (confirmed by The Garth himself, in his blog, where he tells all)

The CPC replaced Warner before he could pull off a 'media grabbing floorcrossing'.

Warner didn't 'merge' well.
He is more comfortable with the Libs, and we all wish him good luck,
in opposition,
propping up the Conservatives,
something he didn't do when he was a Conservative.

knb said...

The blog entry that wilson is referring to is here.

Where you read that he supported Rae is beyond me.

He contacted Turner in fall and was booted out in Feb. 2007.

How'd Finley know he'd spoken to Turner? That is worrisome.

wilson, like everything else you can twist this in whatever way you want. The fact is, today was the first day that Warner actually announced his intention, which if you ask me, suggests a tremendous amount of grace on his part. Another quality that seems not to be admired by the Con's.

Babylonian said...

----Prove my opinion? I thought it was clear that it was my opinion, but since it wasn't, I've clarified the text.

To your point though, Mark said himself that he was told that he could not rely on the work he'd done in the community as part of his platform.

According to Warner, Finley said the following to him.

We run a cookie-cutter campaign and we don't adapt in any way to the reality of Toronto Centre. The voters don't care who he, (Warner) is or what he's done.

Call me crazy but that statement doesn't seem to embrace his accomplishments as being an asset to the Party.----

I'm not sure what to make of that, assuming its true, it sounds like its telling me that his accomplishments won't get him far in TOR-CEN (the heart of Liberal Canada), and I doubt thats the reason for removing him. After all, he was replaced by a Christian Minister who holds more socially conservative views, who in the worlds eyes would be less accomplished, but holds more to party members values.

----He was not a Liberal, he was a Progressive Conservative a group that many contemporary Con's seem to dismiss, which is just another example of how far right the current Party is. There are of course some PC's left, but they robotically spew the line of the day, which says quite a bit about their lack of character.----

Far right of what? of Center? or of the Liberals? I think that the Liberals are moving so left in their bubble, it appears that the conservatives are moving right, relativity.

----Your logic expresses precisely the central command and control mentality that I refer to. It's never worked anywhere in our history because it's impossible for a select few to control all. At some point it collapses.

If you'd care to provide an example where this kind of governance hasn't eventually fallen apart, I'd love to see it.

Listen to the interview here. Fifth QP vid on the right.-----

I agree that concessions should be made in governance, but nothing is wrong with true leadership. Maybee this is awkward for liberals to hear, except maybe those from the Trudeau era who could appreciate leadership.

If you feel that's whats happening, then let canadian decide at the polls. If it is what you claim it is, then let it collapse.


Ps. I do enjoy your blog a lot!!! Sorry I confused you with Lord Omar. I am also an "artist" (mechanical) out of work and reading a lot on politics. It says that you are perplexed why people buy into the current government, I am one who does buy into it, if you would like to chat fire an email off to me. Take care.

fouratengineer@yahoo.com

wilson said...

There were complaints from Warner's riding association, maybe they ratted him out, or maybe it was that pesky Liberal 'mole'.

The day after he got the boot:

''Warner says in the press release that Harper's version of the Conservative party "cynically pays `lip service' to diversity."

Warner is hinting that he may now consider voting for Rae, though he's still reeling too much from the ouster to make any promises.''

November 01, 2007
Susan Delacourt
Ottawa Bureau

wilson said...

Kinda funny,
both Garth and Warner will be more helpful to PMSH in opposition,
supporting the Conservative government,
than they were when they were so-called Conservatives, opposing him.

knb said...

babylonian, that's not leadership, it's dictatorship...in that a few at the top will tell you what to say. Stray from that and you are beat.

As to TO Centre, I'm really not following you here. His accomplishments would most certainly get him far and he would have been a force to be reckoned with against Rae.

Your current candidate, not a hope. That tell's me they knew the riding was a tough one. Warner had a shot believe it or not, but what he was saying didn't agree with the so-con view, so the Con's cut bait.

That to my mind tells me just how ideological they are, versus providing for the country in all regions.

The government will collapse when the time is right. Both politically and mood wise.

I wish you had provided an example where the scenario you buy into has worked.

Thanks for reading. Different perspectives make it more lively and if we can keep it civil, I think that's a good thing. You'll never convince me of your Party's views, not will I you of mine.

Odd that. To have grown up in the same country and see things so differently. Odd, but I believe that is this country's beauty too.

Hmmm, an artist that is a so-con. That is really odd to me. A contradiction in fact.

knb said...

Well wilson, a hint isn't a claim, nor a statement of fact.

Complaints from the riding association? Come on, they get their directives from Finley. If he say's tell me, they fall to their knees and crawl to confess. You're kidding with this rationalisation right?

Your second comment...not worthy of a reply. It's below the the 10%'s I've been receiving for weeks.

I remember mimeo-graphed test's as a child that looked more professional.

Mushroom said...

I thought you would come up with more information of Mark Warner in which he asked for a safe seat to run as a Grit in the next election. He has been kicking tires trying to seek a nomination in the East Toronto region, such as challenging Jack Layton in Toronto-Danforth and taking over from John Godfrey in Don Valley West.

As far as I know, he is still kicking. He should make a firm decision pretty soon and start signing up some disgruntled Con members to shore up the Grit grassroots. We need all the help we can get.

burlivespipe said...

Wilson's laffable 'clues' add up to nil and zip, the equivalent Harper score on the compassionate and economic meters.
After being brow-beaten and told to not talk about local issues or we'll pull your card, Warner consulted former PC-er Garth Turner? Should he have consulted closet sock-puppet John Baird? And after being dumped by Harper's gang and slammed in the press, Warner said he might consider voting for Rae? I guess he should be more like the potted ferns in the government benches and bark like a seal for the fish, right?
The grand ol' Progressive Conservative party is no more, but when it did exist no one confused it with an ideological, reactionary group of thugs willing to bend and preferably break (until they can remake) the rules to their liking. They fought tough but fair. Now your party is governed by ethically-disabled mugs who court the religious right votes with desperate aplomb.
You've made your bed. Unfortunately until someone grows a backbone, we're all living it. I just wish Wilson hadn't crapped in it first...

marie said...

Hi knb, I would agree with you that Mr. Warner would be a great candidate & asset for any riding. Maybe he would consider re-locating to the South Okanogan. I can dream can't I? Seriously though, as far as I know, my riding has no candidate.

I don't know how many of you people know that the conservative candidate (Derek Zeisman) was charged with embezzlement prior to the election & yet his name remained on the ballot. To show you the mentality of the Con supporters in my riding, 8,948 people voted for him.

If we do do not have a Liberal candidate in my riding & that will be bad. I would have liked to know that my vote was counted in the next election but because that won't happen, I will be spoiling my vote with x's on every line & write, None of the above.

Regards

knb said...

Hi Marie. Well that is disturbing isn't it? Zeisman? Hmmm, I'll have to look that up.

Have you written to the Lib's? If you have no candidate, geesh, I cannot imagine feeling so disenfranchised.

I'm going to write to them about your riding. I really hope you follow suit. Here is where to go:
click.

Anonymous said...

Hello knb,

I will be sending an e-mail to the liberal Party asking them if they now have a candidate running in my riding. There has been nothing in the local media or radio in my riding to confirm if there is one or not & who that person might be if there is one

Here is a link on the story about the conservative candidate Zeisman who ran in the BC Southern Okanogan riding.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060112/derek_zeisman_update_060112/20060112?s_name=election2006

I worked the polls in this riding in 2005 & you can bet Zeisman was very much the topic of the day by voters. There was also a NDP candidate in the Abbotsford riding who accused a Liberal Candidate of trying to bribe him to step down & he would have a position with him when he won. Paul Martin yanked him right away saying he would not tolerate that kind of behavior.

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107222&Itemid=560

I am so disgusted with the NDP & especially with Layton. He’s a joke. I would never support them in any way. He & his MP’s are so focused on attacking the Liberals that he
he has forgotten that being the leader of the NDP, its his job is to make sure the conservatives are working on behalf of all Canadians & doing the job they were elected to do. I hope the NDP Party will look at his record & oust him out before he does any more damage to their party.

If you can’t open this link, do a goggle search on “candidate for the NDP who accused Liberal candidate in the 2005 Abbotsford Federal election campaign”.