Thursday, October 09, 2008

Think Before You Vote

If you are Green party member, or an NDP member, or maybe at this point you are simply inclined to vote for those parties, I'd ask you to think before you vote.

If, in your riding, you are certain that your candidate will win and there is no real contest, then vote with your heart, but do your homework first.

I'm not talking about what most of us do. That is hope that our candidate will win. I'm saying look at your riding objectively and take into account current polling data, the last election result data and determine honestly who you believe will win.

Armed with that information and trusting that you do not want Harper to form the next government, vote with your head not your heart and vote for whoever will keep Harper at bay.

Now, there are many riding's where the only logical choice will be Liberal and I know especially for the NDP, that will be a tough choice to make, but it's the right one if we share the same goal. I think it may be less of an issue for the Greens, though I know that you too would prefer to see your plan enacted.

The bottom line here people is that close to 70% of us do not want Harper to take the helm again and the only realistic choice to prevent that from happening, is Stephane Dion.

Here are two people who have already made such a decision.

Green Party candidate Danielle Moreau, Longueuil - Pierre-Boucher has thrown her support behind Liberal candidate, Ryan Hillier.

And here is a very interesting NDP supporter who has decided to join the Liberals as well.

So, I leave it with you. You have a chance to make a real difference this election.

If you want to see Harper happily retired in Calgary while the rest of us get to work putting this country back on it's progressive feet again, vote Liberal where you know it may make the difference.


WesternGrit said...

Great Post KNB!

MD said...

Very well put knb. Even when the polls were impossibly bad I felt that Conservative victory was not a foregone conclusion, and I feel equally strong about it now. The strange characteristics of the first past the post system are making this election impossible to predict.

The way I see it, the most volatility is in Ontario. The Liberals could win anywhere from 40 to 70 seats in the province depending almost entirely on the vote splits. Ultimately, Con majority, Con minority, or Lib minority all legitimate possibilities at this point, and it will depend in large part on the decisions of Green and NDP supporters.

One thing I hope they consider is that all of the opposition parties will be broke and gun shy when this election is complete. I suspect if the Cons are reelected, even with fewer seats, they will hold a stronger hand than they had when they were first elected.

Ricky Barnes said...

Can I ask why the Libs are always asking me for my vote yet never think to speak to LIBS in ridings that fit the criteria you set out (just change NDP for Liberal) for voting to stop Harper.

Bam said...

"The bottom line here people is that close to 70% of us do not want Harper to take the helm again "

........and on the same note 75 per cent of Canada does not want Dion.

knb said...

Thx westerngrit. It's time to be realistic.

knb said...

Exactly md.

I think you are right about Ontario. There are lot's of interesting seats at play here.

Who said this election was going to be dull?

knb said...

Ricky, if you read my post, I think you'll find I did say that.

If the NDP is a shoe-in in a riding and the Lib's have no chance, vote NDP.

If the riding's history and current standing tell a different story, meaning the progressive vote is likely to go Lib, that's what it will tale to keep Harper out.

knb said...

bam, let me rephrase it then.

70% do not want a Conservative, this Conservative government back in. That is if the 70% are being honest about their progressive intentions.

Jaytoo said...

Because, ricky barnes, "strategic voting," for Liberals in their election endgame, is really always a pitch to take votes away from earnest New Democrats. Even if that means electing a Conservative in ridings like those you evoke.

KNB would have you "vote with your heart" as a New Democrat only if "there is no real contest" -- i.e. if there is ZERO danger of competing with the precious Libs -- seemingly unaware of how this galling arrogance is perceived by anyone not drunk on koolaid.

KNB: I don't want a Conservative governmentn either. But if there is another minitory, I have zero confidence that Liberal MPs will no anything but resume rubber-stamping Harper's agenda, immediately and indefinitely. Do you? Or does your entire faith in this party depend on it winning?

knb said...

jaytoo...Layton cannot become PM, period.

That is not arrogance, that is fact.

Who was it last election that went around saying lend us your vote? Oh, yeah, that was Layton.

Who is doing that now, except the stakes are higher and he can't win.

The Lib's did what they had to and they did not rubber stamp. Had the NDP been in the same circumstance, they would have done the same thing and if you don't believe that, well, I guess I'm not talking to you in this post.

Anonymous said...

KNB, before you go and embrace Judge Reid Scott too closely in a pitch for "stop Harper" strategic voting, read what he said in 2004:


"Scott said his support is behind Stephen Harper all the way now unless something very dramatic happens. ‘As far as I am concerned Canadians don't have anything to fear about Harper.’" (Lindsay Daily Post, June 21, 2004)

In other words, it's not the first time he's flirted with another party.

I think the strategic voting jig is up. You Liberals have nothing left in your arsenal, and the third time is SO not the charm on this one.

Anonymous said...

I agree...

To my fellow NDP and Green bloggers, I invite you to read my blog about coming together to beat Stephen Harper. We have lots in common, lets be smart because together we are the majority vote.
I encourage your comments and feedback.

Stephen K said...

Discussions between Libs and Dippers on this topic always seem to end up like this. Sheesh!

I am advocating strategic voting in this election, but to me as a nonpartisan progressive, that means that in ridings where the Con candidate is a threat to win, vote for the Lib NDP or Green candidate mostly likely to defeat them.

knb said...

Gee anon, you refer me to a piece written by Kelly MacParland? lol Furthermore, it provides a quote without context, which says nothing really.

Listen, if you want Harper in, fine. Ignore my post as it obviously wasn't meant for the closed minded. Remember though, you are in the minority.

knb said...

You make excellent points on your blog Gerard.

Well said.

knb said...

Gerard, I meant to ask, what are Friesen's chances? I'm sure Fletcher is respected, but is it a lock?

knb said...

stephen k. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail as the day nears.

Robert McClelland said...

I'll vote Liberal when the libfloggers stop smearing the NDP and toss Chernyuk out of their ranks. Until then I'd vote conservative before I'd vote liberal.

knb said...

So Robert, we can strike you off the progressive list I guess.

I'm not smearing the NDP, I have even been known to vote NDP at various times.

I'm no Layton fan though and I think his platform is not only ridiculous, but completely irresponsible at this point in our history.

Cherniak? He's his own agent and has nothing to do with me or my ideas.

You judge people, or a party, based on your view of one member? How utterly ridiculous.

Niles said...

Personally, I have nothing against voting NDP instead of Liberal if I think it will help.

I *like* the idea that the Liberals might be the ones fronting the PM, but the NDP would be in coalition with them to get platforms passed. The more of each party, the merrier. Toss in the Bloc and Greens and you have a really nice Canadian spectrum with many progressive threads.

Compromises those parties reach will benefit this country a lot better than what we've been seeing to this point. Just like similar push and pulls have done in the past.

No, I don't expect the NDP to form the government alone in any foreseeable time for me. But they can be the best damn 'inside government' lobbyists if they've got their TC Douglas hats on.

Vote for who can take a seat away from the Neo-Cons and take us back to Canada.

Anonymous said...


Yesterday you asked how things are going in my riding, and Steven Fletcher. Thanks for asking, I don't get that question often in my neighborhood.

Well, Stephen Fletcher is expected to win for sure, however I cannot stand what he stands for, I could not stand what he stood for back when he was president of the Manitoba PCs.

I have been the target of Fletchers 10 percenters (flyers), and recieved over 30 of them this summer, I wonder how much we paid for that. The flyers that comes out of his campaign are horrible, nothing but trash talk, he sais things like: Stephane Dion will raise the GST, Stephane Dion will take away the family benefit ($100 per month), Stephane Dion is soft on crime, etc. some days I receive two or three of these flyers.

This riding used to be red under John Harvard, when he left it turned blue (when the PCs and the Alliance merged). I believe based on polling that the liberals will be in second place in this riding.

I have am helping in Raymond Simard's campaign in Saint-Boniface, its gonna be a tight race against Shelley Glover, but I have heard much positive feedback at the doors.

How about you, Mississauga looks like a liberal fortress. What's happening on the ground there?

das said...

The New Democratic Party has reached a new high in voter support, a poll released Saturday suggests.
The four-day Canadian Press/Harris-Decima polI shows the party with 19 per cent, up from 14 per cent when the election was called.The Conservatives are still leading with 38 per cent, followed by the Liberals with 23 per cent. The Green party and the Bloc Québécois each has nine per cent."The gains for the NDP appear to be coming largely at the expense of the Green party and the Liberals," Harris-Decima president Bruce Anderson told CBC News.



knb said...

I'm well aware of where the polls are. That still does not negate the fact that Jack won't win, he'll simply hand Mr. Harper the keys to 24 Sussex again.

Scotian said...

Why is it so hard for NDP partisans to understand that Harper is counting on them to hand him his majority if he is to get one? He needs a strong NDP to split the vote and run up the middle between Liberal and NDP candidates, and to date Layton has clearly been willing to let him. It is obvious that the NDP that placed principles first is no longer real, it has become a party more concerned with gaining seats at any cost (including sacrificing those so called fundamental principles they claim make them different than the other seat first parties) than stopping the greatest threat to Canada as a progressive nation has ever known, Stephen Harper. It is easier for Dippers to continue the lie about Liberal Tory same old story than it is for them to take responsibility for placing their own partisan electoral interests first at the expense of inflicting the most anti-Canadian anti-progressive party leader/PM in Canadian history upon a nation that a supermajority does not want.

If the NDP were still the party of principles that it once was it would have placed opposing Harper as the primary goal even if it made the Liberals a more attractive voting option because with the Libs the NDP have a chance at influencing policy in the direction they want, under Harper there is no such chance. This is selling out principles for the chance to have a few more seats, not even enough for Official Opposition status let alone government despite all the big talk to the contrary. I could accept reluctantly that Dippers thought the CPC was someone they could do business with or wouldn’t be so bad during the last election cycle, but after what they have seen from Harper in this minority they have been shown what kind of destructive government Harper will deliver. He is bad enough in a minority situation, chancing him getting a majority where he no longer has any impediments Parliamentary in his way would make what we saw in minority look like nothing.

These days I am even more disgusted with the Dippers than the CPCers, at least the CPCers are supporting someone who they have some agreement with, the Dippers though are supporting a sellout leader whose main goal is beating down the Libs even if it means allowing Harper to stay as PM, even risking a PM Harper majority. A greater act of treachery to those NDP leaders of the past like Broadbent and Douglas who placed the principles the NDP represented above all else I have never seen. It is too bad that Dippers are no better than the partisans of either CPC or Lib variety, although their sanctimonious attitude of piously claiming to have the higher moral ground makes their partisanship that much more odious and offensive in my books. At least the other parties’ partisans don't pretend to be someone purer and holier than thou while claiming their party is the best choice the way the NDP claims they are a party of principles first while actually being a party of power and expediency first..

Anonymous said...

I’ve received many comments about my call to progressive voters, and have posted a response.
We are in the final stretch of the election and I am reaching out to beat Stephen Harper. Again, please feel free to share your opinions.
Here is my post:

Anonymous said...

Nanos's Sunday Oct. 12th numbers are the Liberals still at 32% in Ontario. This 32% number is pretty consistent with almost all the other pollsters including Strategic Counsel's mammoth Ontario sample of last Thursday. With 40 hours to go before the polls open, it's going to be pretty tough going on election night in Ontario for the Liberals.

The Liberals use the NDP shamelessly when it means getting power, but then mocks what they stand for when they're in office. Maybe once the NDP get more MP's, the Liberals will start treating them with more respect.

Once in office, the Liberals and the Conservatives act much the same. The Liberals check their leftist credentials at the door once the writ period is over.

Scotian said...


Right, of course, that's why no NDP ideas/principles have ever been enacted or even considered under Liberal governments...oh wait that's right, there have been NDP ideas considered under Liberal governments, as recently as Martin with both Kelowna and national daycare (but Layton couldn't let that enactment happen it would cut into his message that the Libs aren't progressive at all, so he pulled the plug on Parliament before they could be enacted) as well as things like Medicare. Give it a rest, the difference between the Libs and CPC where the NDP is concerned is that with the Libs they have a chance of getting some of what they want policy wise, under the CPC they have none.

This is what infuriates me about so many Dippers that claim to be more concerned with principles and policy than politics; they talk out of both sides of their mouths. The record is that Liberals have governed this nation throughout most of its history, therefore the fact that we have a progressive government is de facto due to how the Liberals governed, so claiming they aren't progressive is a crock. Sure, they aren't as far along as the NDP would like, but that doesn't mean they aren't at all, despite claims from too many dippers to the contrary.

I am watching with horror the possibility of not only a reelected Harper government but the very real possibility of enough vote splits to give him a slight majority, all because Layton and the Dippers are more concerned with beating Liberals than Harper because Liberals are their main threat for seats, as opposed to Harper who is clearly the greater threat to core NDP values and image of Canadian federalism.


Sorry, my frustration at watching this insanity is getting to me, and to watch dippers come here to your well written ABC post really irks me. For all I have been down on the NDP if the dipper candidate looks more likely to win my riding I'll vote dipper because I want to make sure Harper doesn't gain from my vote split possibility, I wish dippers could grasp this concept and practice it this time out, defeat Harper and THEN go back to Liberal bashing once the real threat to all of us is gone.

Ryan said...

I've advocated strategic voting on my blog. But make no mistake, it is to keep Harper from power. I have no faith in the "progressiveness" of the Liberal party. Nor do I foresee the Liberals making any major necessary changes to create a better Canada. If that were the case we would have seen the Liberals building on elements of the Trudeau legacy that actually made this country a better one to live in. A vote for the Liberals is a vote to stop any further decline in the moral and ethical well-being of the Canadian state.
It is a matter of stopping the bleeding, rather than healing the wound.

knb said...

No worries Scotian. As you can see by my next post, I'm not giving up.

Your words, as always, are more than welcomed, they are encouraged.

The more voices we have, the people we can reach.

knb said...

Ryan, I appreciate that you have advocated for strategic voting.

I know that many in the NDP believe that the Lib's are not progressive, but would it be more fair to say that they take steps more incrementally than the NDP?

In the world we live today, it would be tough to think of a more progressve leader of the Lib's than Dion.

In fundamental ideology, specifically as it relates to the economy, you're correct, we'll not agree. The plan Layton has put forward may sound utopic, but in the world as it is, it will not work nor has it been endorsed by anyone.

Conversely, the environmental plan you put forward will take at least 4 years to implement. The tax shift can be implemented immediately and has been endorsed by all.

Ironically, the Lib's support the cap and trade you put forward and would work to make that a reality.

There is much to agree on Ryan. Even Layton said that Dion was a man of his word. I wouldn't write off working with him just yet.