Tuesday, May 26, 2009

50 Billion?

This government is officially out of control. 50 Billion!

29 comments:

Joseph said...

Yes, so much so that Harper admitted that raising taxes is on the horizon. Strangely, I think he should be commended for recognizing faint glimmers of reality, or at least admitting it in public. Some acknowledgment of the need for mature financial management from this government would be welcomed.

However, I have no doubt the PMO will be back-peddling and clarifying on his behalf shortly.

I'm surprised they didn't catch it in the same news cycle, but they were probably still hoping it would slide on through and didn't want to draw attention on it.

They're wrong.

Steve V said...

This also undercuts the argument about our relative fiscal health that the Cons like to brag about.

Steve V said...

In the name of accuracy, you might want to change the title, because Flaherty said "more than 50 billion". Given Flaherty's penchant for understating, that could mean 100 billion, but I don't quite have the delusional theorem perfected yet.

Anonymous said...

IT is kinda nice to see "the raise taxes" comment helps out those anti Iggy ads a touch now doesn't it

KNB said...

Joseph, Poilievre was on the 'clarifying' track right after QP.

It would be nice to hear that comment from Harper, but it will never come.

KNB said...

Relative to what Steve?

To be perfectly honest, I'm concerned here. It doesn't make sense.

Our stimulus was to be 40 billion over 2 years, how can we be have a deficit of 50 billion now?

Something is really wrong here.

KNB said...

Anon, I expect to see that excerpt on You Tube any minute now.

I wonder how the Con's will react to disingenous advertising?

Steve V said...

Well, one problem here, how everybody just chalks up the entire deficit to the stimulus package. Fact is, 13 billion of the initial total was structural, and now it looks like about 35 bilion is, before a dime of stimulus.

At least Harper is admitting a tax hike may be necessary now ;)

KNB said...

Exactly, you're making my point re the structural deficit. I think there is more really bad news there.

Steve V said...

Don't forget too, this fiscal year just started April 1st, and already it's 20 billion dollars more than predicted. Ouch.

Anonymous said...

This is all part of a super-duper Harperian strategy that mere mortals are unable to understand.

I think it's this: he is going to run the government so deep into the ditch that nobody is going to want to run it.

Brilliant, eh?

KNB said...

Anon, sadly there may be a kernel of truth in what you say.

Not that no one will want to run it, but his plan all along was to reduce revenues so as not to support those nasty 'socialist'schemes.

KNB said...

April? I thought it was March somehow. Thanks for that.

RuralSandi said...

Wasn't it originally the plan of Harper/Flanigan to spend, spend, spend so that Liberals would have nothing to work with if they got in and part of their sick scheme to destroy the Liberals because of Harper's extreme hatred of Liberals?

So, who has suffered for Harper's petty paranoia and hate - the citizens of Canada.

Harper called an election last fall because he knew what was coming - which means he lied to us all.

Cari said...

My god, what does Harper mean when he says... 'our deficits are affordable, but they remain short term'
I am certain that team couldn't fix the deficit,even if they sold their souls.

KNB said...

Sandi, there can be no question that he lied to us and yes that was the plan, though it was in keeping with their ideology that I often refer to.

I don't do that cavalierly.

You speak of Canadians being hurt. Harper's words to you would be pick yourself up. The comments from Baird on Monday, nannystate, socialist scheme, etc. only fortified Finley's 'lucrative' comment. That is their belief...that people should be responsible for themselves, full stop.

Cherniak_WTF said...

So how do the Liberals plan to work our way out of this global recession/depression?
I'd like to hear some concrete examples?


And before cementheads start to accuse me of being a Connie, I never approved of spending our way out of a global recession, Harper should of seen this coming instead he played politics...

Now Liberals want the reigns of power (they could of had it at the beginning stages of the recession... but that's another story).

So really, what is the Liberal plan to get the economy back on track or is this just a game of blaming Connies?

KNB said...

Cari, what he means is, he is trying to get us to buy that this was all part of the plan. They have to keep claiming that the deficit is not structural, but rather simply a function of the recession and the moves they've made to reduce it's impact.

That's not the case however, imo. I think a deficit was coming regardless and they have successfully used this recession as a shield to prevent the real impact of their ridiculous spending from being known.

That said, had the recession not occurred, I do not think that the deficit would be in these astronomical digits.

Joseph said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cherniak_WTF said...

imo. I think a deficit was coming regardless and they have successfully used this recession as a shield to prevent the real impact of their ridiculous spending from being known.Like teenagers are apt to say - well duhhhhh....

Many (myself included) did predict that the Connies would put us in a very precarious position and not able to weather an "economic downturn".....

So what is the Liberal plan to help Canadians if they get the reigns of power?

Joseph said...

To answer the hypothetical that has been tossed out, I expect the first thing the Liberals will do is determine the truth. The conservatives are clearly dribbling out truth as they see fit on their own convenient schedule. Flaherty hid billions in deficits in Ontario in the past so who knows what the ever-changing story actually means, including the nebulous "over $50 Billion" figure tossed about for the current year. You can't solve the structural budget issues created by the Conservatives candy tossing over the past several years unless you can study the entire mess, not just the whispy threads of spin offered up by Harper and company.

Then I expect they'll perform as respectable governments do (those governing instead of campaigning 24/7). They'll determine a reasonable budget strategy to sensibly bring the budget back into acceptable norms in a way that protects citizen and advances the economy as it resolves the deficit. In that exercise, I expect expenditures and revenue sources will be honestly evaluated, with input of economists and respected financial analysts.

You know, they'll act like adults, that minimal requirement we should expect from any government. The Liberals have a track record on performing in that capacity, whereas the Conservatives have only a record of failure and obfuscation.

I know your craven desire for specific details couldn't possibly be intended to catch the Liberals so I've answered your question honestly.

I expect you are demanding as much from the GOVERNMENT as you are the Opposition on this matter. Harper may have wanted to hand the reigns over this afternoon in Question Period, freudian slip and all, but he has more to answer than Ignatieff on the current mess.

Wouldn't you agree, Cherniak_WTF?

KNB said...

Well cwtf, I guess that would come out during an election.

Surely you aren't expecting a platform release by the official opposition?

To be honest, I imagine that there would have to be some pretty tough decisions made. I don't imagine that their choices would include the same decisions made last time around, but gawd knows there is more expertise on the Lib benches and it's likely that some of the civil service that assisted in the past is still there. In fact, I know they are.

KNB said...

Excellent Joseph! Just excellent!

KNB said...

well duhhhhh.... ? That was rude. I was responding to someone, oh great oracle.

Jeebus cwtf, do you think you are the only one with the answers? Do tell us what you would have the country do at this moment. You don't want the Lib's in power, you don't want the Con's in power...who or what then? Layton?

I mean seriously, your disdain for all that is political offers no solutions, just criticism. What's the point of that?

One solution you seemed to have was to have the Lib's in power without Ignatieff as leader. Since that's not the world we are in, what's your answer?

Cherniak_WTF said...

Wouldn't you agree, Cherniak_WTF?Well no.

Under Martin (either as Finance Minister or PM), I would have no qualms about the direction of the counrty.

As many have pointed out, this is a "new liberal" party that has changed - so, that track record has to be reestablished.



KNB the point of "your disdain for all that is political offers no solutions, just criticism."....

Okay what solutions do the Liberals offer? It's a simple enough question but one that seems to bring out empty rhetoric and/or platitudes...



And yes, Joseph, I am critical of the Connies...

KNB said...

c_wtf, you just turned the question around. You have no answers. Your asking what the Liberals would do, well, I don't work for them and I'm not an MP. I trust (not blindly) that the party is very much the same in terms of fiscal responsiblity as it was under Martin.

Goodale was there and is still of that mind and there is nothing that they have said as a party that has me thinking they'd be any different.

btw, at the convention, Martin and Ignatieff certainly seemed to be more than passing members of the party any time I saw them together.

Joseph said...

I didn't offer you platitudes, Cherniak_WTF. I gave you a reasonable answer, based on pretty rational assessments of how Liberals have governed recently versus how Conservatives have governed during the past 3 years.

Your response was Harper does not bear the greatest responsibility for the current situation or resolving the structural deficits his policies have created. Then you casually and completely dismissed the record of the Liberal Party at solving just that type of situation in the very recent history.

You're so full of it I can smell from here.

Maybe you do complain mightily when Harper pisses all over you, but somehow it doesn't stop you from absolving him of responsibility.

So enjoy. You are apparently quite fond of the sound of your complaints to the exclusion of any answers that might be offered.

penlan said...

Personally I think it's time to no longer respond to CWTF. EVER. He has nothing to offer on any front. We keep feeding him & he just keeps coming back with his innanities with no answers, even when asked. He does not deserve our time, it's wasted on him. Let's use our time for other things. Ignore the rube.

penlan said...

Oh, & Joseph - Well Said on every front! Thankyou!!!