Friday, May 08, 2009

You Want to Talk About Human Rights Abuses?




In discussing the Ruby Dhalla case in my last post, some pretty avid or perhaps I should say rabid, Conservative supporters unsurprisingly turned the story into what it wasn't. Suddenly the issue was not about workplace abuse, which is serious enough and it went beyond employee rights, to, get this...claims of slavery.

Well, lets not indulge the idiocy of those claims or the people who claim them, but rather let's take a look at just how seriously the party in power at the moment, takes the issue of human rights and abuse.

In the typical Friday news 'dump', the Conservatives have said that they will ignore what our Federal courts have to say and will work to keep Omar Khadr where he is. Not only is this action unfounded, it once again exposes the Conservatives' complete lack of respect for our judiciary and our laws.

The federal government has decided to file an appeal rather than abide by a judicial order to seek the return of Omar Khadr, jailed in a Guantanamo Bay prison, to Canada.

I've made no secret of my disdain for this government and wouldn't have thought it possible that it could grow, but it has. This and the Abdelrazik case disgust me if I'm honest. The Conservatives are playing with 2 lives for the sake of political expediency. The red meat they need to throw to their followers comes in the form of 2 human beings, who may or may not have committed crimes and both of whom could be tried in Canada if it was so deemed.

Given that important point, you have to ask the question, what is the government doing, really. There is only the one answer. This keeps my people happy, to paraphrase. That is disgusting.

We know a lot of info about the Khadr case, though admittedly that one is a little more complex legally. Not morally, not in terms of what our government could do right now, but with respect to what the government can throw in front of the public to hide behind.

Abdelrazik's case however has been exposed to the bone. The government has nothing to hide behind, except their own shadow and it's penumbra, loosely called followers at any cost.

In both cases, the Conservatives have no difficulty in witnessing and indeed condoning abuse and torture, yet they are all over the news right now decrying the infringement of human rights.

The hypocrisy is astonishing and that it's not being pointed out in the media as they feed on the infotainment stuff is rather a sad statement on where we are today.

42 comments:

KNB said...

Before my Conservative commenters get started, note my previous post.

In no way do I condone employee abuse. I've made that abundantly clear.

penlan said...

I'm so angry right now I could spit nails. Harper & his thugs have so crossed the line on so many things & the mistreatment & abuse of these 2 men & also of Dhalla, media included, is beyond comprehension. Their mean, vindictive, vile natures are now clear for all to see. And this is what we want Canada to be like? God help us all.

WesternGrit said...

The Dhalla drive-by smear was just a cover for this Friday news dump... I think they figured they could sneak Khadr and Mulroney by, and get some mileage from the Dhalla thing...

Hopefully the media wakes up...

KNB said...

Western, they are drinking their own slop at the moment, so I'm not sure they will.

KNB said...

penlan, it's not the Canada I want.

The problem is, it's not being contrasted with what we could and should be. Those stories are either ridiculed or ignored sadly.

penlan said...

"The problem is, it's not being contrasted with what we could and should be."

Then I think it's time the Libs got out there & start making the contrasts very, very clear - or we are all going to lose in a very horrible way.

penlan said...

Very clear & very LOUDLY!

KNB said...

penlan, I don't disagree.

The question is, will it be covered?

penlan said...

"The question is, will it be covered?"

Repeat, repeat, repeat. That's what the Libs have to do, at every single opportunity - same tactics the Cons use. Even if it means doing it in QP - just like the Cons. Fight back with the same game for awhile. This is going to get so nasty that if they don't do something then, well, I don't want to finish that thought.

Cherniak_WTF said...

KNB, I thought better of you than to play the "equivalence" game.

The optics of Ruby Dhalla are awful. This is/was Liberals' youth and multiculturalism critic. Liberals have been deflecting with the most improbable scenarios and assumptions. All trying to deflect what does not pass any smell test. An ethics probe is a joke at this point and Dhalla and her supporters are stretching the bounds of logic to heights only matched by the Conservatives.
The more that comes out of this story, the more Dhalla looks like a liar and hypocrite.


When it comes to Abdelrazik and Khadr, the Conservative reactions are a joke. Yes, I'm outraged to the point where I've given support to both. I've written to various people to make them understand that this is not acceptable.

Let's be honest here, many Canadians, no matter what political party don't want Khadr back.

As for Abdelrazik's both the Liberals and Conservatives have their hands dirty.
At the moment, the Conservatives are being assholes - end of story.
But until many Canadians stand up, just like the Brenda Martin case, nothing will be done.

KNB said...

I'm playing no game here cwtf. None.

I was clear in my Dhalla comments.

That you have become so jaded that you can actually equate the two parties is tragic to me. Fair enough though. Chant with Duceppe and Layton and the country will be moved forward how exactly? Right, not at all.

I respect your intelligence but question your wisdom.

Utopia does not exist and no matter our cry for it to appear, we are only left with tangible bits to move around.

I make no excuses for my stance and reject your accusation of equivalence. I think I've been pretty consistent.

Anonymous said...

Let's be honest here, many Canadians, no matter what political party don't want Khadr back.
Cherniak, please don't try and speak for all Canadians. We have a little more compassion and sense of fair play and class then the average Reform/ Alliance bunch. And KNB, as soon as I do a clean up of my computer, I lose all my passwords so I again will post as a anon. Sorry.. Marie

KNB said...

No worries Marie. I don't class all anons in the same way.

I thought there was a poll that suggested that Khadr should be brought home. No?

Oh, and cwtf, is not Cherniak. You may have been just using a short version of his nick, but there is an important distinction to be made. For the record...as they say.

Cherniak_WTF said...

KNB, I'm hardly chanting with the NDP or Duceppe.

My only flirtation with the BQ was to ensure that Fortier did not win an election - the Liberals offered no one that could actually win here.... Both the Conservatives and the Liberals did very poorly...

Jaded? Quite possibly.

wilson said...

Khadar was in Gitmo for 5 years before the Conservatives won government.
Why is it neither Chretien nor Martin brought home the boy soldier? they knew what was going on there.

Same with Maher Arar, under Liberal government.

Same with Sampson, under Liberal watch, with reports of torture, left to rot.

And what about the Somalia inquiry, Chretien shut it down.

And now the guy wrote on torture if necessary, leads your party.

Time to get off your high horses.

RuralSandi said...

Yup - there goes Wilson blaming Liberals for the Con failures ignoring the fact that new info has come up since the Lib days.

Many Canadians don't want Khadr back? How many is many? Many could be 100 or 200. Majority do want him back on principle. That doesn't mean he should be tried, but should be tried at home.

And, where does Harper come off doing this case by case thing? It's weird.

Re: Dhalla - innocent until "proven" guilty and the media should be ashamed of themselves. They're more worried that someone challenges "them" than they are the facts.

The press (especially Fife) moaned and groaned because she hadn't spoken up and then when she did via her lawyer they moaned and groaned. They wonder why her lawyer spoke - well, duh, if I'm not mistaken some of the allegations could mean jail time, so geez, a lawyer might just be required here. I think her lawyer was right not to let her speak because we all know the media and especially the Cons would over-analyse and twist what she says.

penlan said...

C_WTF,

I suggest you read this:

http://westerngrit.blogspot.com/2009/05/ruby-dhalla-victim-of-political-drive.html

Cherniak_WTF said...

Penlan - weak at best....

The Mound of Sound has noted some curious "facts" from Dhalla and her camp...

penlan said...

C_WTF,
Weak? Care to explain? If their signed receipts, etc. are true then where exactly is the weakness?

"The Mound of Sound has noted some curious "facts" from Dhalla and her camp..."

Where exactly? here? Somewhere else? Provide link(s), please?

KNB said...

I think you mean BCL cwtf.

I didn't read his links, but it's info I knew already.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Penlan, we likely both read the same sources...

The summary is fairly simple.
You have on former Liberal youth and immigration critic accused (but not proven) of mistreating 3 former employees. The story about withholding passports being backed up by an agency.

Dhalla offers in her defence "which will prove I'm not involved.", blames her brother and said the nannies were for her mother... Great (rolls eyes at this point)....


Is there some kind of smear campaign going on? Sure, but it will not change her suspicious story. Can't wait to see the T4s and pay stubs...

Dhalla, to be blunt, is arrogant; from the controversy of the beating children in India after the curse was stolen to the DVD to this....




To me, Abdelrazik and Khadr are a litmus test of where Canada is on the right of individual citizens...

KNB said...

wilson, you've never seen me commend the Libs for their actions in those cases, though Sandi is right concerning the facts.

As for Ignatieff, parroting idiocies does not make them true.

penlan said...

cwtf:
"The story about withholding passports being backed up by an agency."

And did you read that one of the women complaining GAVE her passport to Neil Dhalla so he could help her with her immigration staus? The she changes it, much, much later, to supposedly being "taken away" from her? Very fishy is all of this stuff.

*sigh*. We shall see what transpires in the end.

"To me, Abdelrazik and Khadr are a litmus test of where Canada is on the right of individual citizens..."

What rights? Seems Harper/Kenney/ Cannon are taking them all away.

wilson said...

So then answer my question sandi or knb,

why did Chretien and Martin leave Khadr in Gitmo for the first 5 years?

I'm not blaming Liberals,
it's you condemning Conservatives for treating khadr the same way your party did,
when in power.

Perhaps the reason Liberals left poor little khadr in Gitmo is the reason the Conservatives are now.

The champions of human rights?
Only when in opposition...

When a gang member was present (not the shooter) and a bystander gets shot and killed in Ontario,
that 'under aged' gang member was tried as an adult, and sentenced for murder.

When an under aged girl in Alberta, kills her parents and brother, she is tried as an adult, and sentenced for murder.

But khadr is to be treated differently, as a child soldier?

What army was he serving under?
Not the Canadian military, for sure.

Sir Francis said...

Wilson:

...that 'under aged' gang member was tried as an adult, and sentenced for murder.

Yeah, and he got the fair trial that has been denied to Khadr.

Why do you think Khadr's slow-motion Gitmo lynching is equivalent to due process?

sjw said...

"What army was he serving under?"

Omar Khadr was only a child when he was victimized by a fanatically religious father whose indoctrination led this child to the battlefields of Afghanistan where he supposedly killed someone in a gunfight. A gunfight where there was death and destruction being perpetrated on both sides. It is easy to look at the bearded man of today and forget the smooth-skinned face of the child he was almost a decade ago when as a brainwashed individual he was fighting for his life. The Liberals were wrong on how they handled this file and the Conservatives are just as wrong today. Every day that passes that sees no repatriation of this young man (who in my mind is not criminally responsible for his supposed actions) is a national embarrassment for me and any sensible thinking Canadian.

KNB said...

wilson, your question ignores that the circumstances have changed. That's not an excuse, that's reality.

I think the Lib's were wrong and have said so. They have reconsidered though, have said they were wrong and have adopted a more realistic position.

The famous refrain now from the Con's is, 'you did it too'. To me that's the equivalent of a schoolyard taunt. Baseless. Most adults as they go forward reassess their positions with new information. The Conservatives seem unable to do that.

This case and others are an embarassment to the country and a horrible abuse to those involved.

KNB said...

cwtf - Dhalla, to be blunt, is arrogantSo, you've met her?

Cherniak_WTF said...

KNB...
Purse snatching
During a trip to India on January 10, 2008, in Punjab, a member of Dhalla's staff had a purse stolen by two children, who were claimed to subsequently have been beaten by police. Following the incident, a local television news anchorman alleged that Dhalla originally commented to other local journalists that she "cannot control what the police do … and [she hopes] that those young kids learn from this incident". The anchorman called her purported comments "shockingly callous". Dhalla later claimed that her initial comments were misconstrued and that the situation had been "hyped up" by the local media,
Source Wiki...

Arrogant at best....

WesternGrit said...

WTF: I've lived in India. The police there beat everyone, and are one of the most corrupt forces in the world. They always beat local beggars - including children. Dhalla would have been out of place in saying anything critical of the Indian Police - since the world assumes that just because India is a democracy, there are no such problems.

I was a student in a renowned University in India, and some friends decided to "prank" us on Halloween: they came over to the house, blocked the doors from outside, and started pounding on the doors. One of my roommates panicked and called the landlord - who called the police. The police came out - beat the snot out of our buddies, tossed them in jail, took their passports/ID, and told them they could not leave the country without paying a very large bribe (which they paid).

You don't mess with the police over there. If you're a local (or visiting) dignitary, the police will sell you out to your enemies for a few dollars or a bottle of whiskey. My uncle is a federal MP over there, and he keeps a gang of private bodyguards because the police is so unreliable and corrupt.

What happened in this case will soon be determined to be someone lying for personal gain - and it will have little (or nothing) to do with Dhalla.

penlan said...

cwtf:
"Dhalla later claimed that her initial comments were misconstrued and that the situation had been "hyped up" by the local media"

And yet you call her arrogant. Have you read Western Grits comment after yours yet? Did you look into what Dhalla actually said so as to be able to present it to us? Or do you prefer to just go with repeating what you read in a news article, after the fact?

Your hate for everything "Liberal Party" is very evident. Do you hate what Harper & the Cons have done, & are doing, to this country? Yes, I know there are some things you are angry about but I rarely see you criticizing them, just sporadically. But absolutely anything Liberal brings a negative torrent from you.

Have you considered having your own blog in which to express your thoughts & feelings on ALL things political?

We live in an "imperfect" world & you seems to be looking for the ABSOLUTE ideal in one Party. Well, it doesn't exist anywhere in the world, not in people as individuals nor in political parties.

As I've said many times before: I'm not happy with the Liberals or Ignatieff's stance on a lot of things BUT I'm even unhappier, & even scared (as well as outraged), by Harper & the Cons & their stances on just about everything. No one is completely in agreement with everything/platform, etc. in any Party.

IF Dhalla is found guilty of these accusations then she will pay the price for it - as she should. Justice must be done no matter who it is.

Also, as of this writing no charges have yet been filed against her. These women have not gone & followed legal procedures yet & I wonder if they even will. Speaking to the press, doing interviews, is not the same as actually taking it to the Courts. Let's see what happens.

Gwen said...

"Your hate for everything "Liberal Party" is very evident."

More a statement on a disasterous personal life permeating online, than any valid commentary. Get it all out cwtf, get it all out.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Penlan,

Dhalla can do all the spinning that she wants. If you want, we can examine her press conference with her lawyer. It's classic damage control and rather insincere, actually, she reminds me of someone imbued with a sense of entitlement.

There is no hate of everything "Liberal Party". Yes, I have not renewed my membership and I have stopped donating to them. There is disappointment and, if I am to be honest with myself, they are playing a game of dummying down politics. This is a trend imported by the Conservatives from the U.S.


As for legal proceedings and justice, this is a farce as you maybe aware. Plausible deniability, like we have seen with Mulroney, makes a mockery of common sense. I'm sure that you will have no problems with my saying that receiving a large sum of money in an hotel room is flagrantly wrong and reeks of an illicit deal. Yet, many Canadians believe Mulroney and no criminal charges have been filed.

Do I hate what Harper as done with the country? Yes. Does it justify the Liberals emulating them?

It's odd how Liberals have/had no problems when criticisms is levelled against the Connies - (heck I've even lowered my IQ to post over at JoJos) but the same kind of notes about Liberals is met with "why the negative torrent"....

Maybe some should examine why they become emotionally committed to a party and follow with enthusiasm and uncritically.

penlan said...

cwtf:
"I'm sure that you will have no problems with my saying that receiving a large sum of money in an hotel room is flagrantly wrong and reeks of an illicit deal."

Have no problem with that. There is so much corruption in govt. now, everywhere, that it now seems to have become the "norm". But this govt., Harper's ham-fisted one, is the worst as far as I can see. And corrupt doesn't just mean money changing hands, as you know. There is moral, ethical corruption that is running rampant in this Con Party. Just look at what this post is about - "Human Rights Abuse".

Cherniak_WTF said...

It's quite amusing to see Dhalla answer questions today...
She skated around where she lived.... if you can't answer a question directly....

This is almost as good as Mulroney...

KNB said...

Wow, you have subjective viewing skills too.

penlan said...

"Wow, you have subjective viewing skills too."

LOL!!!

Cherniak_WTF said...

KNB, did you watch the hearing?
Simple question was asked.
Asinine answer given.

(feel free to apply to Mulroney if you prefer).

Let Dhalla speak, if this was a shining example of "Liberal" then the party is irrelevant. I'd prefer to think that they are some decent liberals there (Dryden, Kennedy, Dion for example).


Gordo told the committee Dhalla was typically home from Thursday until Monday each week. But Dhalla appeared at one point to deny that she even lived in the home with her brother and mother, and thus was not aware of any perceived impropriety.

"I visit the home," she said, citing a busy work schedule, waving airline boarding passes as evidence of her whereabouts.

However, after prodding by parliamentary secretary Rick Dykstra, she conceded it was also her residence.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/12/dhalla-foreign-caregivers-committee.html


I have no time for that kind of twisted logic from Connie, and equally less from Liberals...

KNB said...

Yes I was watching the committee and actually thought that response was silly and completely unnecessary.

The rest of her testimony was pretty compelling though, so I'm not going to judge the whole hour based on one answer.

WesternGrit said...

She is a single South Asian woman. Unfortunately, in our culture, there is a challenge in attracting some votes from folks who have concerns about a single young woman not staying at her mailing address (this is very sexist and wrong - but she has to put up with it - it is a part of South Asian reality). In the same way, she would never be able to openly admit a relationship with someone (and if you've noticed, an attractive young MP like her SHOULD be the talk of the town, but she ISN'T).

Simple fact is, some of these people would even frown upon her being away from home on work. It's stupid, and sad, but true. She has a mailing address, but I can believe (and do) that she was rarely home.

Facts remain:
- One maid recanted her testimony about the passports, and admitted Dhalla never held her passport.
- Dhalla never hired these women, and NEVER supervised them.

I live in an extended home/family.. Should I be responsible for any misdeeds by my parents and/or siblings? I don't think so.

This is honestly f'n stupid. It's beyond ridiculous, and it's a travesty. The Conservatives needed a smokescreen on Mulroney, and look what we have? Look what we're all blogging about?

Who's talking about the economy, or jobless Canadians?

WesternGrit said...

She is a single South Asian woman. Unfortunately, in our culture, there is a challenge in attracting some votes from folks who have concerns about a single young woman not staying at her mailing address (this is very sexist and wrong - but she has to put up with it - it is a part of South Asian reality). In the same way, she would never be able to openly admit a relationship with someone (and if you've noticed, an attractive young MP like her SHOULD be the talk of the town, but she ISN'T).

Simple fact is, some of these people would even frown upon her being away from home on work. It's stupid, and sad, but true. She has a mailing address, but I can believe (and do) that she was rarely home.

Facts remain:
- One maid recanted her testimony about the passports, and admitted Dhalla never held her passport.
- Dhalla never hired these women, and NEVER supervised them.

I live in an extended home/family.. Should I be responsible for any misdeeds by my parents and/or siblings? I don't think so.

This is honestly f'n stupid. It's beyond ridiculous, and it's a travesty. The Conservatives needed a smokescreen on Mulroney, and look what we have? Look what we're all blogging about?

Who's talking about the economy, or jobless Canadians?

penlan said...

WG,

You, better than most of us, know the culture & how it works. I appreciate your sharing it & for all the insight.

Do you have a link to where one of the maids recanted her allegations?

For the Cons to try & use this as a smokescreen for the Mulroney/Schreiber hearing isn't working. It's still the lead in national T.V. newscasts, except for local news.