Monday, July 23, 2007

You're Kidding, Right?

B'Nai Brith Canada, is asking Stephane Dion, to withdraw this man from the race in Outremont.
You surely are joking. Has Stephen Harper succeeded in dividing this country so fundamentally, that you believe that this man, this man, is anti-Israel?
Have we now devolved to the point that intelligent discussion can no longer be had? Think back people, we used to have these discussions all the time. This is stupidity and it is certainly going back in time. And guess what else, it's discrimination.
Honestly people, get a grip. You're accepting mediocrity, if you stand by this.
Coulon is no more anti Israel than my neighbour's dog. He has in his career raised issues that must be admitted to the argument. How is that wrong?
I'm tired of seeing this in Canada and it's time to stop it.
Steve looks at it from a different point of view.


Anonymous said...

Coulon is quoted as having said some very foolish things about Hamas.

It was a Liberal Government that placed Hamas on the terorist list, and for good reason.

Coulon has suggested that Hamas not be isolated.

That was a serious mistake.

He must recant if he wants to be part of a lIberal team.

The Liberal Party has no room for those who would embrace terrosists/.

Sorry. That's the way it is.

Steve V said...

"Have we now devolved to the point that intelligent discussion can no longer be had?"

There was a time, when you could be pro-Israel and articulate a sympathy for the Palestinian plight. That compromise position, which the Liberals have always held, is undermined in the Harper world of divisive politics, wherein arguments are taken out of context and a false sense of allegiance is created. The Conservatives will use this, and whatever else they can muster, to curry favor with their targetted audience and put the Liberals in a confusing light. The truth is irrelevant.

Steve V said...

"The Liberal Party has no room for those who would embrace terrosists"

Oh, what utter crap. There is big difference between pragmatism, where you have a untenable situation and offer a theory on a way out, and EMBRACING terrorists.

Anonymous said...


You can't handle the truth!!

The truth is that Hamas is part and parcel of radical Islam that is trying to undermine Western Democracy.

That is the truth!

knb said...

The Liberal Party has no room for those who would embrace terrosists/.

This is the idiocy I speak of.

Sound familiar? Yeah...the same junk that spew's from the conservative government, "Taliban supporters", etc.

How did we become so dumbed down? Seriously, when did this happen?

knb said...

Anon: You can't handle the truth!!

Aside from the fact that you hide behind an anon quote movie lines to support your view?

What an utterly ridiculous posture. You my friend are the problem. How'd you get there?

Steve V said...

"You can't handle the truth!!"

How original, just like your simplistic read.

Manuel said...

You mention a time of sympathy and compromise as the Liberal mindset on the issue and your right at one time that was how it was thought. but somewhere along the way a whole lot of people lost that mindset and have picked a side. You claim it's Harpers world but it was created by all of us.

knb said...

manuel, I think I hear what you are saying.

We all have choice...but for the most part, this country has had a common cause and goal.

Look south, and you no longer see a common goal. Bush and friends have used a disgusting tactic and sadly, it's worked.

Harper is not Bush, but to deny that he is using his tactics, would be beyond ostrich.

Many of us, I dare say a great many, still see a country united, not divided.

I hope, that there are still enough of us left to bring that back and make it work.

The politics of division, has to be erradicated now.

mezba said...

And so this man who suggest a practical and pragmatic step by step cautious approach in the dangerous mine-field of Middle East politics is to be cast aside? Just because he doesn't always mouth opinions favorable to one side?

When did that become "our Liberal view"?

I prefer intelligent debate over soundbites anyday.

Anonymous said...

I find it ridiculous that CPC supporters feel we don't know that Hamas are terrorists.

Because people worry about the true victims of this neverending situation - the children, we are considered to support terrorists.

Since Harper totally politicized this do B'nai Brith, etc. feel they have the right now to decide who should run in elections? Do the Jewish people feel it's all about them now?

Yup, Harper has truly divided Canada.

Anonymous said...

Wait a few years and terrorists become respected statesmen.
IRA (southern version)
G. Washington & friends

to name just a few

We may not like "them", but we will eventually have to come to terms with "them"

It has been said that 'terrorism is the warfare of the poor while war is the terrorism of the rich'

Anonymous said...

Well I'm Jewish and I'll say it. Hamas should not have been isolated. Western aid should have continued to the Palestinian authority in the West bank and Gaza. The best way to deradicalize groups is to interact with them. Being in government brings international accoutnability. The reason why radical Palesitians refuse statehood is because they dont want that accountablility. Its much easier to have terrorist organizations you can claim you have no control over, aka al aska, or even the situaton in Southern Lebanon. Palestine needs statehood imposed on it, if necessary immediately, which they have refused several times in order not to be accountable. Sovereign states are responsible for the actions of people within their borders. Not taking responsibility, undermines that sovereignty, as Lebanon has painfully learned. If radical organizations choose legitimate routes to power, such as elections, so be it. That very act de-radicalizes them and brings them into negotiation with more moderate forces. It's not a bad thing in the long term. Short term, it can be seen as doom and gloom, but if every radical group sought election and had to negotiate on the international stage for aid, recognition etc and cam,paign for reelection on their ability to govern, it makes the world much, much, much safer. Hamas should not have been isolated, aid should have continued to flow through the UN or the Palestinian authority controlled by Abbas. That's not anti-semetic.


Anonymous said...

This view by the way is very different from some Liberals including MP's who marched in an anti-israel rally supporting people aka Nasrallah, whose goal is to kill all Jews, not to get elected. VERY DIFFERENT!.

To remove this from the knee jerk response this topic will get, the CBC recently did an expose on Liberals, and some NDP's marching in parades where Sikh terrorists are glorified. Liberals, particularly MP's, need to do more research before attending rallies or parades in support of terrorist organizations, one of which committed the largest mass murder in Canadina history. It happens to get cultural community votes and support and it shouldn't. There should be serious disciplinary actions taken against MP's or leadership candidates who do this. It can't be tolerated. Saying I didn't know doesn't cut it. If you aren't sure then dont go.

Again this is very different than supporting the view that Canada should continue aid to a very volitile region for political stability and humanitarian reasions and that any democratically elected government should be communicated with. It wasnt a military coup. It wasn't a dictatorsip. It wasn't south Africa where blacks couldnt vote. We have rerlations with several countries where women cant vote. the Hamas government was far more legitimate than many many many governments we have and have had relations with.

knb said...

s.b., Are you still in Montreal? If so, do you have a sense of how this is being received there?

rob said...

B'Nai Brith is being disingenuous when they say that Coulon has an anti-Israel bias. Just because you disagree with B’nai Brith on the tactics that ought to be used when dealing with Hamas, doesn’t make you anti-Israel.

On the larger issue of the breakdown of reason and nuance, I am equally concerned about the state of public discourse in this country. These type of Republican debating tactics are really damaging to democracy.

ottlib said...

Anonymous 10:02 said:

"The truth is that Hamas is part and parcel of radical Islam that is trying to undermine Western Democracy."

Mr. Anonymous, you will never have any idea of how to defeat radical Islam if you do not know what its motives and overall objectives are.

Radical Islam does not care about the West except as an example of what they do not want to be. The idea that they are a threat to the West is a fallacy conjured up by the hawks in the West to justify their half-century of sillyness in the Middle East and Central Asia.

Let's be clear. Radical Islam is solely focused on those parts of the world. They have no designs on Western democratic institutions. They just want to make a vast swath of the Middle East and Central Asia into Muslim states.

Unfortunately anonymous, folks like you and B'nai Brith do not seem to understand that to defeat radical Islamists we are going to have to ally ourselves with moderate Islamists or at the very least take actions that does not undermine them. The isolation of the Palestinians did just that and we have seen the results.

KNB: The deterioration of discourse in this country has been going on for awhile. It has just become more pronounced since Stephen Harper came along.

Anonymous said...

You libs are all a bunch
of fools just typical libs.

knb said...

ottlib, KNB: The deterioration of discourse in this country has been going on for awhile. It has just become more pronounced since Stephen Harper came along.

Perhaps. Perhaps it began when he and gang showed up as opposition, giving a quiet voice to those who who previously hadn't been heard from to any degree.

It's certainly worse now and to be honest, it really is sad to witness, particulary when you know it starts with the Government of this country.

Anon @4:05, you simply prove the point. I'm sorry you didn't feel you could actually add to the discussion. I'm happy to debate opposing views. Your comment however adds nothing.

ottlib said...


The deterioration predates Mr. Harper, although Mr. Harper has the dubious honour of accentuating it and taking it to unprecedented levels.