Wednesday, September 03, 2008

But, But....

As Kady points out, Jason Kenney's new job as Green Shift critic just got a little harder.

The Liberals have tapped into the farming community for one of their candidates in the next federal election.

Bob Friesen, president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, will be the party’s candidate in the Winnipeg riding of Charleswood-St. James-Assiniboia.

This is obviously really good news as he was recently depicted as being against the plan because it did not sufficiently address the needs of farmers. He raised his concerns and the Liberals obviously listened, so now not only does he support the plan, he's willing to run for the party and promote it. Tough to get a stronger endorsement than that for the farming sector.

Not only are the Liberals picking up excellent candidates, this one will help to expose Kenney's idiotic rants for the lies that they are. How can Kenney continue to bellow that the Liberals are attacking farmers? Of course, I have no doubt that the Con's and Kenney specifically will begin bashing Friesen at the first opportunity but I suggest they do that at their peril.

I don't know if there are any more of these surprise candidate announcements, but this coupled with yesterday's news of Calvin Johnston joining the team indicates that, not only are we countering Con talking points, if these 2 win, we're going to have a pretty terrific team.

Compare that team to what Harper has to present and well, what can I say?

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

So Dion flip flopping and pandering to major petro fuel consumers by rewritting his precious plan so as to save the ridings of guys like Goodale is making the Conservatives job harder?

That's rich.

Nobody in this country except you partisan, rabid Liberals is buying the "Green Shift". Election night is going to be such a slap in the face for the Liberals.

knb said...

Do you guys take pride in being ridiculous not to mention uninformed?

Your plan, the Conservative Plan is the only one that is going to increase the price of fuel for everyone while not offering any assistance for those who need it.

Flip flop, not only a juvenile retort, completely inaccurate but I know facts don't mean a whit to you guys.

penlan said...

How nice to see someone - Dion - paying attention to the needs of people in this country - then making adjustments based on those needs. Now THAT'S the leader we need!

This has never happened since the Cons formed the govt. Oh, except during the upcoming to an election when they start throwing money around everywhere to try & buy votes.

knb said...

Oh and to the 'partisan' drivel.

I've never pretended that I didn't support the Liberal party or that I was a member.

A definition of partisan:

3. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of partisans; partial to a specific party, person, etc.: partisan politics.

I had time for the Progressive Conservatives. That is not what the party in power is, not even close, so yeah, I'm against just about everything Harper stands for.

I say just about because he said he stood for openess and transparency, until he didn't.

You want to talk about changing your position? I suggest a gander at Harper's record.

knb said...

That last comment was aimed at anon, obviously.

Anonymous said...

And do you take pride in being so blindly partisan and naive that you would get behind an obviously flawed wealth redistribution plan thinly disguised as an emissions reduction policy?

What are the reduction targets? Why no discussion about proposed "green tariffs" against our trading partners? That right there would kill us. But then again, I don't expect you to understand things like protectionism and the global economy, after all you are by admission, an unemployed artist.

Why not go paint a pretty picture and leave the adult discussion to people who didn't major in the liberal arts.

knb said...

penlan, it really was part of the plan all along.

Spend the summer listening and adjust if necessary. It's in the Green Shift plan released in June.

Harper doesn't listen to his caucus, why on earth do we think he'd listen to Canadians?

Yes this spending spree is an obvious ploy, but to be fair, Paul Martin did that too. The difference is the Liberals believed in the spending, the Con's as recently as 7 months ago said helping the auto sector was a band aid solution.

knb said...

anon @6:08. Did I say I wasn't earning as an artist?

As for the rest of your condescending remark, world Economists, who presumably understand the world economy, support this plan.

Why don't you write to them and tell them they are wasting their time and should instead paint pretty pictures rather than attempt to remedy the mess we are in?

penlan said...

"Why not go paint a pretty picture and leave the adult discussion to people who didn't major in the liberal arts."

Anon - When you graduate from kindergarten come back so that we can all have an adult discussion. How easy it is to post anonymously, with no info on you, so you can make a personal attack. You're a coward. And a sheep blindly following your leader & not looking at the facts.

penlan said...

knb = yes Martin threw money around but planning ahead. Harper is throwing it out in retrospect. All of a sudden his eyes are opened? Fat chance.

Also, Harper tossed out a lot of money last summer thinking he was going to be having an election when Parliament resumed.

knb said...

Agreed penlan. Gawd, Flaherty was pathetic, what little I saw on Newman.

It'll be on line and I'll (gulp), try to watch the whole interview.

Jim said...

No coward here, penlan. Say what you will but the fact is that Dion's plan is SERIOUSLY flawed and the wise portion of the Canadian public are not being duped.

I have read some of your partisan comments on various blogs and you strike me as exactly the kind of lefty yapping head that would support such a foolish plan simply because it came from your rapidly sinking party of thieves and liars. I suggest you read it thoroughly and ask yourself what difference it is going to make to carbon emissions in Canada...don't have the time to actually educate yourself before opening your foaming yap? Let me spell it out for you. In the end it will make NO difference in Canadian emissions levels, it was never designed to.

And knb, economists around the world are indeed in love with carbon markets, but they mostly favour cap and trade systems. Find me one well known economist from outside Canada that has embraced Dion's social engineering experiment, I dare you.

I am so glad that more and more Canadians everyday are seeing through the socialist crap that used to pass for government in this country.

RuralSandi said...

Boy these Con trolls are testy today aren't they. If only they'd read and check things out instead of relying on Harper's limited talking points. So sad isn't it?

Rabid Liberals? LOL - I just look a John Baird and think - now that rabid.

Anonymous said...

Do they call it the Green Shift because it's always changing, never static, like the work in progress that it seems to be?

Sir Francis said...

Why no discussion about proposed "green tariffs" against our trading partners?

That's a right-wing idea--firmly endorsed by people like conservative Gaullist Nicolas Sarkozy (who favours an import tax on goods from non-Kyoto signatories). You're talking to a liberal, jackass.

Find me one well known economist from outside Canada...

...yeah, because you can only trust non-Canadian economists--so says a typically Canada-hating neo-con.

...the socialist crap that used to pass for government in this country.

It's rather sad to see the loony libertarians who pass for citizens in this country.

Oh, and I guess the Canadians who yet fail to see past all the "socialist crap" would be the 65% of them who consistently support left-of-centre parties, Einstein.

knb said...

Jim, every serious thinker on this issue supports cap and trade, including Dion.

Had that movement happened, begun when Dion first proposed it, we'd be in a place today that you could rest on those laurels.

Layton nixed that possibility and we can't wait years to take action.

I'm all for cap and trade but, I'm not prepared to wait to see that be developed.

I thought Nicholas Stern was in favour of a carbon tax, but I stand to be corrected. I'll look it up though.

If you are willing to have a civil discussion, you are welcome. Assuming that I or other commenters here don't know what we are talking about is not useful.

The fact remains my friend that Harper has the ONLY plan that will increase fuel costs and provide no balance/relief to that. No relief, nada. Oh, and at the end of 4 years, the price of carbon per tonne in the Liberal plan will be $40.00. Harper's plan estimates $65.00.

How do you square that circle?

knb said...

Sandi, Baird, Poillievre, Goodyear, Flaherty, Clement...the list goes on and on and on.

Yes I support the Liberal party, but I don't think I put rabid remarks or posts out there.

knb said...

sir francis. Well said.

catherine said...

"And knb, economists around the world are indeed in love with carbon markets, but they mostly favour cap and trade systems. Find me one well known economist from outside Canada that has embraced Dion's social engineering experiment, I dare you."

Jim, I doubt you are actually interested in learning, but if you are, I suggest you look into the reports on carbon pricing by the US Congressional Budget Office. They are stacked with economists, supported by a hefty budget, whose job is "to provide objective and impartial analysis" to the US House and Senate, making no policy recommendations. Their analysis concluded that a carbon tax is more efficient in that, for a set reduction in emissions, a carbon tax will cost less than a cap and trade. They have worked to provide suggestions for trying to get the economic benefits of a carbon tax from a modified cap and trade, because politically one cannot mention the word tax (except along with the word cut) in US politics.

Similarly, the EU adopted a cap and trade (rather than a carbon tax) for political reasons, not for economic or environmental reasons. Many participating countries have both a carbon tax and cap and trade. They coexist fine, and ultimately Canada will likely have both. Cap and trade can be easier to negotiate between multiple countries, as the EU found.

Dion is courageous in trying to sell the best approach to Canadians (best because it is easier and faster to implement and will cost less overall) despite politicians in other countries concluding that it is difficult to sell something that involves a new tax -- even though consumers will pay even more under a cap and trade. The simple fact that "cap and trade" does not include the word tax appears to lull voters into ignoring that the costs to them will be the same (or more, according the the US CBO) and most politicians are happy not to point this out to voters. Harper and Layton have jumped on the anti-tax bandwagon and they are not doing the earth any favour with their misleading messaging.

Red Canuck said...

Anon - Do they call it the Green Shift because it's always changing, never static, like the work in progress that it seems to be?

Good grief. Yes, anon, that's precisely why they call it the Shift. Because it's changing.

Unlike the CPC, who prefer to stand with their feet firmly in the mud, and their heads firmly up their asses.

Gayle said...

"And do you take pride in being so blindly partisan and naive that you would get behind an obviously flawed wealth redistribution plan thinly disguised as an emissions reduction policy?"

Do YOU take pride in displaying your utter ignorance for all the world to see?

Oh wait, you are just another anon. I guess you don't take pride in your ignorance.

As for Jim's comments, I am not sure why people feel the need to respond. All he is doing is making baseless assertions. Rather than defend the plan based on his uninformed "attack" (which is really nothing more than namecalling), why don't we ask him to back his assertions up with, well, anything.

knb said...

Jim, instead of attacking penlan, let's hear/read you explain how the Green Shift is seriously flawed.

Oh, and it would be nice to have proof that it's being rejected given the candidate announced today.

You can't stay in la-la world anymore. This will be a serious campaign and who do you have to put up? Prentice, Flaherty and Kenney aren't going to cut it.

I used to like Prentice. He's after your guy's job though. Have you noticed that he always positions himself to the camera at an angle? Oh, maybe only stupid artistic types like me notice these things, but it's a fact. What is that all about?

Face it, you lost your one credible Minister today and he was a Liberal.

Jim said...

Yes Sir Francis, apparently I am talking to a liberal jackass. Dion himself has talked about imposing tarrifs on non complying trading partners (complying with what?).

As for my comment about a non Canadian economist, it was meant to suggest a non partisan opinion. As for me hating Canada, well now you have stepped over the line. Please go fuck yourself. I have done military service for my country. What have you done? Collect some welfare cheques I would venture. Socialist douches like you are one of the biggest problems in this country. All people like you seem to do is ask "What can my country do for me".

And better a "loony libertarian" than a socialist leech anyday. In my opinion I am a citizen and you are probably a civilian (h/t to Heinlein).

Anyway, back on topic. I would support a well thought out and balanced cap and trade system, but open your eyes people, Dion's wealth shift ain't it. His plan does NOTHING to reduce emissions.

Admit it!

catherine said...

Jim, the Congressional Budget Office is non-Canadian and by law it is nonpartisan. The have studied both carbon taxes and cap and trade in depth and came to the same conclusion as Dion.

ottlib said...

Wow, Conservatives really do fear the Green Shift Plan. They have been talking about it more than the Liberals since its release.

Certainly it has been to trash it but you have to wonder why they would go to such effort if they really believed "Nobody in this country except you partisan, rabid Liberals is buying the "Green Shift"".

The Conservatives and their media allies have been trying to kill this thing for months but it is like the Energizer Bunny, it just keeps going and going.

Polls are still stating that the environment and the economy are the two biggest issues on the minds of Canadians. The Green Shift Plan touches on both so the Liberals are well placed to speak to these issue.

The Conservatives know it and it scares the hell out of them.

knb said...

Jim, I'm pleased and proud that you have served. Don't assume however that I don't have family members who have as well.

That does not give you a pass when you are repeating Harper talking points.

The military are not all Conservative and surely you know that.

You make idiotic assumptions and I'm quite sure that you've not done your homework.

You've yet to answer what is wrong with the plan.

Targets? True, they are tough to measure but Dion has said he expects 20%. A carbon tax isn't meant/designed to measure reductions. It's meant to stimulate the economy and reduce production by giving people and sectors the means to do the right thing. It will of course have an impact but it's not one you can target.

Your master on the other hand has set targets with no way to meet them. That's fun. In fact he built in provisions that would allow him to not meet them. Brilliant!

Is the smoke getting in your eyes yet? Check the mirror if you can find it. They work in unison apparently.

knb said...

Indeed ottlib. Fear is their ally.

They push it and they live it.

Weird that.

ottlib said...

Oh the Conservatives are certainly trying to convince Canadians to fear the Green Shift Plan but they genuinely fear it. It is not an affectation.

They know that it could resonate with Canadians who are worried about both the economy and the environment.

From the very beginning when Stephen Harper said the Plan would "screw" Canadians their fear of the plan and what it could do to their re-election chances has been palpable. Does anybody else not feel the fear from Conservatives going into the Fall?

Judging by how they have jumped all over a minor change to the plan I would say they are still terrified of what this plan could do to them in the coming election.

Gayle said...

KNB - this is totally OT, but I thought I would give you this link

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/2008/2008fc965/2008fc965.pdf

It is on a topic you have blogged about before. Stockwell Day gets slammed by yet another liberal judge.

knb said...

Thanks Gayle.

I've been thinking about that and then got distracted by the day to day politics and life.

Some would posit I can't argue either position.

They'd be wrong.

Sir Francis said...

As for my comment about a non Canadian economist, it was meant to suggest a non partisan opinion.

So being Canadian makes one "partisan". I love it! This from a self-described patriot. Pathetic.

Here's my take on it: a Canadian's opinion is as worthy as anybody else's. But, please, go ahead and continue to play in your little sandbox in Stephen Harper's Canada-bashing world.

I have done military service for my country. What have you done?

Gee. I was in the Army Cadets. Does that count?

By the way, resting your credibility on facts that are totally unverifiable is a common but serious breach of netiquette. You could be a pimply 12-year-old girl writing from her parent's basement for all we know (you certainly sound like one).

In any case, military service gives you no environmental/economic expertise, and it certainly doesn't protect you from legitimate retaliation when you behave like a belligerent blowhard on someone else's blog.

For now, allow me to promote you to Regimental Sergeant Moron (which, as you may know, is not a rank, but an appointment).

Socialist douches like you are one of the biggest problems in this country.

Bigger than imbeciles like yourself who refuse to extend even a modicum of basic respect to views other than your own? Welcome to the Taliban, mate. Hope you're proud to be there.

I'm neither socialist nor even a liberal, you fool, as you would learn from visiting my own blog. But I'm sure the many Canadian soldiers who support or have supported the Liberals and NDP would love to know they are "douches". Care to say that to one of them while he's got his C7 handy, you great warrior you?

penlan said...

Jim said this about Sir Francis:

"What have you done? Collect some welfare cheques I would venture."

Once again you are on an unfounded personal attack. If you took the time to go to the blog of Sir Francis, & also look at his profile, you will see how very wrong you are.

And about me you said this:

" I have read some of your partisan comments on various blogs and you strike me as exactly the kind of lefty yapping head that would support such a foolish plan simply because it came from your rapidly sinking party of thieves and liars."

Once again you repeat the same old Con talking points. What a good, blind follower you are. Thieves & liars? Ummm...did you miss the part where Harper has been trying to steal taxpayer monies in the last election? You know, the "In & Out" scheme that Elections Canada will be coming down heavily on in the near future. Most likely in the middle of all the campaigning.

Yes, I'm "yappy" AND scrappy, & happy to be able to have the freedom to express myself which is something not seen in the Con caucus under the thumb & dictatorship of your leader, Harper.

Did you forget that this is a LIBERAL blog? A place for Liberals to discuss & express their views. I, for one, do not go to Con blogs as they would not accept what I would have to say & my comments would be instantly deleted, even if I were to state common sense facts on the issues. Unlike here where we are open to intelligent discussion & even you have been allowed to comment here, even though your discourse is one of attack, attack, attack, rather than present your side to issues.

You make no attempt to open my mind to a differing viewpoint - which is what discussion is all about.

And your bigoted view on people who may have to rely on welfare cheques for a time is reprehensible. Thousands upon thousands of people, mostly in the manufacturing area, have lost their jobs under Harper, Flaherty, et al, & for those who cannot find other work immediately & have had their EI benefits run out need something to feed themselves, their familes, & keep a roof over their heads. Or would you prefer they all live out on the streets? Your compassion is truly showing. Showing that it's non-existent.

Wake up Jim.

Demosthenes said...

I would venture that "Jim" and "Anonymous" are much the same person, and that said "service" consists of proud duty with the 101st Keyboardists.

(Douchebags to a man that they are.)

And I have no doubt that he's trolling you. Anybody dumb enough to actually try to play the citizen/civilian Starship Troopers card would be too inept to be able to manipulate a computer in the first place.