Sunday, April 05, 2009

Two More Weeks Without Supervision?

This is James Lunney, MP for Nanaimo-Alberni. If you didn't hear about him last week, maybe you will over the next two weeks.

Last week, Mr. Lunney felt it important to make a member's statement in the House. It was on a day when Harper was out of the country, though I'm not convinced he listens to these statements even when he's in the House. I listened to the statement and was gobsmacked to tell you the truth. It was one thing to hear Gary Goodyear skirt the issue of evolution a couple of weeks back, but here was Lunney, not skirting the issue at all, but defending his fellow traveller and attacking the subject head on.

Mr. Speaker, recently we saw an attempt to ridicule the presumed beliefs of a member of this House and the belief of millions of Canadians in a Creator. Certain individuals in the media and the scientific community have exposed their own arrogance and intolerance of beliefs contrary to their own.

Any scientist who declares that the theory of evolution is a fact has already abandoned the foundations of science. For science establishes fact through the study of things observable and reproducible. Since origins can neither be reproduced nor observed, they remain the realm of hypothesis.

In science, it is perfectly acceptable to make assumptions when we do not have all the facts, but it is never acceptable to forget our assumptions.

Given the modern evidence unavailable to Darwin, such as, advanced models of plate tectonics, polonium radiohalos, polystratic fossils, I am prepared to believe that Darwin would be willing to re-examine his assumptions.

The evolutionist may disagree, but neither can produce Darwin as a witness to prove his point. The evolutionist may genuinely see his ancestor in a monkey, but many modern scientists interpret the same evidence in favour of creation and a Creator.

I shook my head and wondered why on earth would he be bringing this up for further discussion. To begin with, I don't recall the media ridiculing Goodyear for his beliefs/religion. The blogs did perhaps, but the media simply continued to question his scientific beliefs given his position as Science Minister. Call me crazy, but I see a through thread there.

Arrogance and intolerance? Pot meet kettle?

His statement was not only preposterous, it was intentionally provocative. He grinned like a schoolboy as he delivered it and his posture defied anyone to shut him down. Why though? I guess perhaps, as has been written about lately, the different factions that make up what is now called the Conservative Party of Canada are getting a bit restless.

A quick google on Lunney brought this site up. I don't pretend to know what the hell they are talking about, but it seems clear that this group is thrilled about having people in Ottawa who they are associated with.

Scary? Naw, not really. Backbenchers like Lunney are hardly going to impact the running of the country. Oh, Harper will throw them a bone once in a while, but even the big voices like McVety who have some access, seem to have little influence. What is a bit frightening is the fact that so many people vote for these candidates. Do they know who they are voting for and what the candidates intentions are? I somehow doubt it.

So, add Lunney to the list that Harper willingly takes in to win power. It seems to me that he debases them far more than any member of the media could. Afterall, he uses them for his own gain, casts them aside and orders them to be silent. That whole silence thing isn't working out too well lately though, is it?

We can only wonder what the next 2 weeks might bring.


Woman at Mile 0 said...

You just roll your eyes, hang your head and hope for the embarrassment of having such ignorant politicians elected by Canadians to pass. Problems is these guys just keep doing it over and over...
Perhaps it's because their moronic equivalents at CanWest keep egging them on. Please can't someone pull us out of this non stop 3-ring circus for *%$#@! sake.

wilson said...

Could be a push back from Cons because your Interim leader is trying to appeal to Western, rural and the faith followers, conservative territory.
Cons trying to flush out the phoney from the real.

So what do you think KNB, will the fight for government be Libs and Cons each going for the Blue Libs and Red Tory vote?

Btw, if you check out this poll, you'll see why your Interim leader has set up a special Liberal committee to focus on 'people of faith'.

''In a 2007 Canadian Press-Decima Research poll,
26% of respondents said they believe in creationism,
29% picked evolution and
34% said they believe in some combination of the two.'

Condemning/attacking creationists is not really a winner for the Liberals.

wilson said...

John McKay, special advisor, Faith communities (used to be on the Liberal site home page, had to find it thru google)

Woman at Mile 0 said...

umm people of faith, who understand even the basics of science, believe in evolution. Seriously we are in the twilight zone here wilson and your dim wit leaders led the way.

LMA said...

Well said, Woman at Mile O. What has the ignorance of the Minister of Science about the scientifically observable facts of evolution got to do with Liberals attacking Creationists?

DavidA said...

The MP was technically correct. The scientific method was established so that we could all avoid using our personal prejudices to colour truthful observations of our environment.

There is no way to definitively test either theory. Both must sit perpetually in limbo until we have either instruments or methods to test and measure their worth.

It would be best if we did not inflict upon science the faith that religion and atheism demands.

WesternGrit said...

I can't believe we still have "world is flatters" around... This is sad. Pretty soon we'll have dinosaurs running around on Parliament Hill, because technically (and this is using the same thinking), we haven't disproven their existence or extinction... We find their "graves", and we see members of their "family" everywhere... Maybe "Stock" was right? Lol... Sorry, my degree and post-grad work both tell me how humans evolved. With every shred of evidence (and it IS evidence), this has been proven - including the near-perfect match of hominid genomes. That monkey's your uncle.. as sure as we sit here.

penlan said...

knb wrote:

"What is a bit frightening is the fact that so many people vote for these candidates. Do they know who they are voting for and what the candidates intentions are? I somehow doubt it."

No, the voters don't know who they are voting for - for the most part. In the last election there was a lot of talk & media attention paid to the fact that nearly all Con MP's would not take part in any debates in their ridings with the candidates from other Party's. They weren't allowed to. Ordered not to. And just listening to Lunney shows us why.

So, people didn't really know much about where the Cons stood on anything. Other than Harper's non-information, "I'm a leader" campaign.

The more they speak the more crazy, & dangerous, they sound. Oh, please let them speak more & more.

KNB said...

Woman, I keep saying 'this too shall pass' as well. Sadly, every time we have one of these MP's pop up we have articles, like the one you cited, pushing the issue. At least the writer was somewhat nuanced, but it still tends to reduce the argument to black/white, either/or, in the end, which of course is ridiculous.


RuralSandi said...

I would think people are more concerned about the economy, their families, the future than the rants of Looney Lunney. If the right wing wackos are listening to this guy - their not paying attention to what's going on in our very volatile world - and that's frightening.


KNB said...

Wilson, maybe it is push back from the more paranoid in the Conservative caucus, but that is unfounded in my view. How likely is it that these fundamentalists would vote for the Liberals?

I'd be more apt to say that they haven't been able to push their agenda with Harper at the helm and they may be unwilling to remain silent any longer.

People of faith of course do not = creationists. They are in a league unto themselves. For that reason, I have no problem with MacKay's 'assignment'.

The fight for government may be for the centre, but the centre really is the domain of the Liberals, not the Conservatives of today. Progressive Conservatives will likely see more in Ignatieff and the Libs than Harper and 'flat earthers'.

KNB said...

DavidA, while I take your point generally, the Theory of Evolution certainly has been tested, thus the accreditation of 'Theory'.

KNB said...

Western. I can believe they are still aroung, what I can't understand is why?

Oh, it's too long of a discussion I know, but what they hope to accomplish by disproving the proven escapes me.

The psychology involved in trying to prop up your belief system and therefore your relative worth is fascinating, but that aside, why is the education system so lacking that this even comes up?

KNB said...

Indeed penlan they run the risk of 'branding' the party again. Oh well, lol.

KNB said...

Sandi, you must remember that many of them are counting on the chaos, praying for it even.

That's what makes them scary, imo.

Woman at Mile 0 said...

Evolution theory is observable testable science. It is not a maybe, it is a fact. Obviously some Canadian schools have done a dam poor job with some of our young minds.

wilson said...

'How likely is it that these fundamentalists would vote for the Liberals?'

12 Liberal MPs voted FOR opening up the SSM issue, these Libs are likely against abortion too.
Tho there was a big push from some Libloggers to have the 12 Libs booted out of caucus, it didn't happen.

Knowing the world is round,
and believing in a higher power are not the same thing.
And to label people of faith as flat-earthers,
is just a snotty way to shut down the debate.

I am in no way religous,
but I hope there is something on the other side, so I don't condemn the believers.

The Mound of Sound said...

Lunney happens to be my mp. My riding is a magnet for retirees, a lot of them from Alberta or Saskatchewan. I think they're enough to tip the balance to Lunney.

I find the man not just a little odd. When the space shuttle Columbia burned up on re-entry in 2008 with Israeli astronaut Ilan Ramon aboard, Lunney mentioned it in his next constituency mailing. He questioned whether this was God's way of sending some message to Israel and the US? That just floored me.

Lunney is also the co-chair of some pro-Israel parliamentarians' lobby group. I believe they're affiliated with the Covenant Alliances group. If you haven't checked them out, you should. Go to:

This group advocates the extension of Israel to its 'historical' borders and the explusion ("resettlement")_of the Palestinians to the lands of their "...Arab kinsmen in order to rescue them from the purgatory of refugee status and restore to them the hope of a better future." What they're talking about is nothing short of the ethnic cleansing of what was, at one time, the land of Israel.

These people are slaves to the notion of biblical inerrancy, a belief that Chris Hedges utterly demolishes in his book "American Fascists." It's a very dangerous belief that bodes well for no one except the Rapture freaks.

Unfortunately the Liberal Party makes next to no effort in this riding, giving Lunney an easy pass.

KNB said...

Wilson, I specifically DID NOT label people of faith flat earthers. I was referring to the extremists.

Yep, there are people in the Lib caucus who abide by their faith re' abortion and SSM, but they don't discount science. The pope doesn't even do that!

What we are speaking of here are those who are denying fact. It's like saying that the theory of gravity doesn't exist. In fact many of them still insist that the Earth is at the centre of the solar system, so we are talking about the extreme who read the Bible literally.

Most faiths do not do that.

I have nothing against faith or people who believe in it. I do have problems with people who dismiss logic for ideology, holding power in this country.

KNB said...

MoS He questioned whether this was God's way of sending some message to Israel and the US?

Huh? What was the message supposed to be? The end is nigh? Preview of the Rapture?

If the Libs did put up an effort, would they stand a real chance do you think? Yikes, it must be something living in the midst of this community, though I'm sure few of us really know who are neighbours are.